I am trying to use collections to combine scenes for common looks and to add chases as an effect layered on a base scene within a parent chase.
For example I have a scene and need to create another with just one extra fixture. Instead of cloning the first scene I tried to create a collection with two scenes, the base and one with the extra fixture. This would allow me to make changes to the base "look" in one place. This also works with a base look and an embedded chase for a strobe sequence in a parent chase.
The problem is in the master chase if I often want this structure:
s1
c1 (contains s1 and s2)
s1
s3
It advances from s1 to c1 correctly then then advance jumps from c1 to s3 skipping over the second instance of s1. This only occurs when c1 contains s1. Also back tracking through this is impossible. It will back to c1 then whenever it tries to back through the first s1 it will always jump back to c1.
One other odd thing is that chases within a master chase always take the fade times of the master chase. It would be better if the times specified in the sub chase would be honored.
collections in a chase
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Matt
While doing some testing for another thread I found a workaround for this issue. If s1 is not included in a chase directly but inside another collection then it works as expected.
It would be
c1_with_only_s1
c1 (contain s1 and s2)
c1_with_only_s1
s3
It is a bit of extra configuration but better than having multiple copies of scenes to maintain.
It would be
c1_with_only_s1
c1 (contain s1 and s2)
c1_with_only_s1
s3
It is a bit of extra configuration but better than having multiple copies of scenes to maintain.
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Jon
Matt, an important question. If s1 is in the two different collections, and you move from c1_with_only_s1 to c1_with_s1_and_s2, does the chase "fade" smoothly?
Consider what I am doing in Jesus Christ Superstar (my current show). My c1 chase would have two steps/scenes in it, one with bright red lights, one with very low red lights along with some movement of the lights (back and forth rocking).
Now the two steps have a "period" of 5 seconds each so the loop should go start from bright red then fade to dim red then fade back (pingpong chase).
If you start c1_with_only s1, and you play it 7 seconds, then hit the button to go to the next step in the master cue list/chase, c1_with_s1_and_s2 should come in, but the other chase is "out of sync" with the second copy (in the second step). I hope that makes sense to you.
So my concern is whether it will look "good". The same thing applies to movers, if the second chase starts from its "beginning" and the other chase is somewhere in the middle when you hit the button, you might see a very rough jump in positioning. Ditto for several other possible options like focus, zoom, etc.
Ideally, you should be able to have internal chases that are like internal cue lists (nested) in which ANY step that has infinite duration stops the sequence at that point and you press GO and then you get the next step in whatever chase had stopped. That continues until all possible chase steps in any given collection are exhausted and the next step moves you to the next step or collection in the next outer chase.
I am sorry this is coming out jumbled but I do know what I am trying to say. Essentially looping chases should continue to run once started until their "parent" is ended by the fact that all of its sequential steps (non looping chases) are finished. That would let me put the master "pulse" chase in the outermost collection collection and place a basic steps chase along with it.
By the way, I really hate that we overload the word chase since in most theater consoles the concept of cues and chases are unique things.
Consider what I am doing in Jesus Christ Superstar (my current show). My c1 chase would have two steps/scenes in it, one with bright red lights, one with very low red lights along with some movement of the lights (back and forth rocking).
Now the two steps have a "period" of 5 seconds each so the loop should go start from bright red then fade to dim red then fade back (pingpong chase).
If you start c1_with_only s1, and you play it 7 seconds, then hit the button to go to the next step in the master cue list/chase, c1_with_s1_and_s2 should come in, but the other chase is "out of sync" with the second copy (in the second step). I hope that makes sense to you.
So my concern is whether it will look "good". The same thing applies to movers, if the second chase starts from its "beginning" and the other chase is somewhere in the middle when you hit the button, you might see a very rough jump in positioning. Ditto for several other possible options like focus, zoom, etc.
Ideally, you should be able to have internal chases that are like internal cue lists (nested) in which ANY step that has infinite duration stops the sequence at that point and you press GO and then you get the next step in whatever chase had stopped. That continues until all possible chase steps in any given collection are exhausted and the next step moves you to the next step or collection in the next outer chase.
I am sorry this is coming out jumbled but I do know what I am trying to say. Essentially looping chases should continue to run once started until their "parent" is ended by the fact that all of its sequential steps (non looping chases) are finished. That would let me put the master "pulse" chase in the outermost collection collection and place a basic steps chase along with it.
By the way, I really hate that we overload the word chase since in most theater consoles the concept of cues and chases are unique things.
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Matt
For my purposes I was using the collections to add a special or some other static light to a scene or to add a momentary chase effect on top of a scene. My most recent show was Les Mis and I used a collection with a scene and two chases. The scene was the base lighting and the chases were two different gunfire effects cycling strobes and LED pars around the stage. I would have something like this:
First Attack (Scene)
First Attack Collection (contains a COPY of First Attack scene plus strobe sequence)
First Attack (Scene)
In my test I am combining two scenes together. I added a 1 second fade in/out and while watching the fixture monitor I see a slight dip in the value of a fixture in the current test sequence I'm using. If I create a new scene which combines the fixtures of the two scenes I do not see the dip. I would assume that they would behave the same. I will have to run it with the lights to see if it is noticeable.
I would consider the dip that I'm seeing with the collections a bug, the collections seem to have a few issues in chases.
I have never used it the way you want to, as a way to extend a single chase across multiple scenes. I've always done the opposite, extending a scene across multiple cues which include a chase (or two or three) in one cue.
First Attack (Scene)
First Attack Collection (contains a COPY of First Attack scene plus strobe sequence)
First Attack (Scene)
In my test I am combining two scenes together. I added a 1 second fade in/out and while watching the fixture monitor I see a slight dip in the value of a fixture in the current test sequence I'm using. If I create a new scene which combines the fixtures of the two scenes I do not see the dip. I would assume that they would behave the same. I will have to run it with the lights to see if it is noticeable.
I would consider the dip that I'm seeing with the collections a bug, the collections seem to have a few issues in chases.
I have never used it the way you want to, as a way to extend a single chase across multiple scenes. I've always done the opposite, extending a scene across multiple cues which include a chase (or two or three) in one cue.