VC Faders Misbehaving When Starting Show

[pg787]

Hi.

I have been dabbling with QLC for some time and I have made a show for our foyer bar where we have smaller shows such as music, cabaret, comedy etc.
I intend to have this show on the PC so we can just turn on and go so to speak, and for the more complex shows can just copy the file and add more scenes.

I have attached the generic show here and the custom fixtures.

I have a cue list with functions as scenes. I als have added faders to the VC to allow over-riding the scenes on the fly.

The problem I have is when press the green play button to run a show in the VC. My cue list will run but all my VC faders which I use for over-riding are messing with the cue list.
I have to click on the X button on every single fader one at a time. Once I have X'ed the faders everything works normal.

Anybody have a clue what I am doing wrong?

Thank you

[MichelSliepenbeek]

I noticed that you use LTP (latest Takes Presedence) for all channels of all your fixtures.
There is nothing wrong with that (in fact i do the same), but you need to be aware (and understand) that the logic is different from when you use HTP (Highest takes Presedence).

Furthermore i noticed that in every scene you have boxed all available channels. I would suggest to take a different approach:
- Create specific scenes for setting your colors (so you only Box the R, G, B & W channels and give them appropriate values.
You can start with the 6 basic colors Red, Green, Blue, Yellow, Cyan, and Magenta (which are 255 - 0 - 0 or 255 - 255 - 0 permutations of your RGB channels) as well as White and Black and maybe add 6 more colors like Orange, Lime, Sea Foam, Lavender, Pink and Purple (which are 255 - 128 - 0 Permutations).

- Create specific Scenes for the positions of your moving heads (where you only set Pan and/or Tilt).

- Create Sliders on your VC that control the Master level of either every seperate Fixture or every Group of Fixtures. It is important that every fixture should only "listen" to one slider (otherwise you create conflicts).
You use these sliders mainly to balance your different types of fixtures and set the maximum intensity of your complete set.

- create Sliders for Strobe (if you want to use that).

- Now create solo frames to select the color you want to use (for all your fixtures, for a group of Fixtures, or for every fixture specific). Put every solo frame in a separate frame, add a slider to that frame and set it to act as submaster. (It is important to understand that the slider will only act as submaster for the functions that are in the same frame).

- In a Simular way you put your Cue List in a separate frame and also add a submaster to that.

Now you're in control.

Some Tips:
- if you unbox "show Title" and "show on/off button" you will hardly notice all those extra frames.
- it is easier to Delete than to Add: first create color scenes for all your fixtures, then if you want to create color scenes only for your "Front Fixtures" copy those scenes, rename them and delete the Fixtures you don't need.
- have a look at collections.

[pg787]

Hi thanks for your response. QLC is a bit of a brain teaser but getting there.

The reason I switched my intensity channels (R, G, B, W and Dimmer) to LTP from HTP is because when I have an active scene from my cue list and they I click a button to activate a sequence, such as the Side Fill Solour Fade sequence, the dimmer levels of the scene were taking precedence over the sequence. I presumed because of HTP. So my sequence was looking bad as the pars would fade to colour then to warm white not black (ew).

If there is an alternative way of making my sequence override my cue list I would prefer it because when the intesity channels were set to HTP my VC sliders were not playing up.

Ideally I would like to use the fixtures in RGBW 4 channel mode rather than 8 channel mode but I could not work out a way of changing the intensity in the scene creator or VC.
Using your tip of creating a submaster fader in each frame I can now control the intensity of each bank which is nice! Still would be nice to have a submaster in the scene creator.

So you are saying add my colour picker and RGBW faders in a solo frame? Then add that solo frame to a frame with a submaster for that parent frame?
Could you go through that again please?

And also the cue list in a frame with a submaster, so that would control the cue list intensity? Will try that today.

Those tips are helpful. Thank you.
I have re-created my scenes now for only the specific channels in use on the fixtures. And I last night learned how to use collections. So I am putting multiple scenes in a collection and adding the collection to the cue list. This works much better. Thanks for that tip!

I also would like to know, how can I create a strobe sequence for a bank of RGBW fixtures. I would like adjustable speed which I know how to do with a sequence, but also adjustable colour. And I want this to override the active scene or selected colour.


The other thing that is a PITA is the colour picker and also the monitor 2D view does not seem to support RGBW or RGBWA at the moment. This is really annoying and I wonder is this a feature going to be implemented? The colour picker is very primitive. would be nice to see something like EOS family has where it can show you the current colour and the manually picked colour and when you kill the manual colour it will fade back instead of jumping.

[GGGss]

Yeah - collections and a startup function (even a collection) and some parameters will fire your QLC+ environment up in running mode and with the startup function active.
* collections: https://docs.qlcplus.org/v4/basics/glos ... collection
* parameters: https://docs.qlcplus.org/v4/advanced/co ... parameters
* startup function: See the green flag at https://docs.qlcplus.org/v4/function-manager

[pg787]

Hi!.
I have already found the startup function and I have that currently set to my "Main Cue List" chaser so it displays the first "scene" which is a collection.

But I still have to click the X button on every single slider manually in the VC before the active "scene" in the Main cue list will work properly. Then everything works as expected.

[MichelSliepenbeek]

The reason that your "VC Faders are misbehaving" is because the master level channel is boxed in all your scenes.
If you put a subfader on such a scene (without changing it first), the subfader will also change the master level. You will still get the same result (or even make it worse).

The essence is to create specific scenes that are only meant for setting colors (so only affect the RGBW channels, nothing else) and then have a subfader to dim the levels of these RGBW channels.

Be also aware that if you put scenes in a solo frame and you use the same scenes in a chaser as well, this may cause another unwanted surprise.
If you have a solo frame with buttons for Red and Blue (so it acts as : Red OR Blue) and you add a collection of (the same scenes) Red AND Blue to your chaser, the solo frame will prevent you from running both scenes at the same time.
In this case you should make a copy of your Red and Blue scene and give them a different name (e.g. Red 2 and Blue 2).

[pg787]

The reason that your "VC Faders are misbehaving" is because the master level channel is boxed in all your scenes.
If you put a subfader on such a scene (without changing it first), the subfader will also change the master level. You will still get the same result (or even make it worse).

The essence is to create specific scenes that are only meant for setting colors (so only affect the RGBW channels, nothing else) and then have a subfader to dim the levels of these RGBW channels.

Be also aware that if you put scenes in a solo frame and you use the same scenes in a chaser as well, this may cause another unwanted surprise.
If you have a solo frame with buttons for Red and Blue (so it acts as : Red OR Blue) and you add a collection of (the same scenes) Red AND Blue to your chaser, the solo frame will prevent you from running both scenes at the same time.
In this case you should make a copy of your Red and Blue scene and give them a different name (e.g. Red 2 and Blue 2).

OK this makes much more sense now thank you, that explanation is very clear! I will work on that and see how I get on.

[pg787]

OK so I have re-created the show with my fixtures in 4 channel RGBW mode and the battens in 5 channel mode. Thus eliminating the master dimmer channel from these fixtures.
I have also started fresh in the Virtual Console.

Unfortunately my original issue is still present with the sliders.
When I start the VC in live mode (I have no startup function), My cue list does not work correctly until I click on the X for every R,G,B,W and Colour picker slider manually every single darn time I start the show.

I have added a cue list in a frame with a sub master and also a frame with my haze and smoke controls.
I have for now only made a frame in the VC for the side pars. Will add the other fixtures after my issue is resolved.

I have made colour scenes for all my fixtures and chasers instead of sequences.
I have for now only made a frame in the VC for the side pars. Will add the other fixtures after my issue is resolved.

In the frame I have a submaster which successfully can dim the fixtures.
And faders for RGBW. I have also added a colour picker. These work as before and are set to monitor the channels.
Also buttons in a solo frame for a bunch of colours which refer to the same scenes as in the chases
And buttons in solo frame from selecting my chases, along with speed controls.

All of these work fine as before.

I am just still not understanding why I have to manually kill the sliders every time I click the green play button in the VC. After doing this they work as expected but I would have to do this for every bank of fixtures

I have attached my updated show file. The fixtures are the same as before in the zip file.

[MichelSliepenbeek]

You put in a lot of energy, Respect

A few remarks:
You did not have to change the modes of your fixtures, you only had to unbox the master level Channels in your scenes.

The problem with your workfile (as i see it) can best be subscribed as "three dogs fighting for one bone".
The color selector is set up to control the Red, Green and Blue Channels of your Side Pars. The Red, Green and Blue Sliders are also set up to control the same channels and finaly the color scenes again try to control those same channels.

I have removed the Color Selector and unboxed the "Monitor ...." function on the Sliders and now it does what i want it to do.

I got the idea that the color selector, if not set to perfect black and absolutely zero, is producing noise (DMX values not being zero) that override the values from sliders and/or scenes.
In the same way i assume the monitor function by wanting to "adjust the slider level" is creating a kind of dead lock situation (i guess this could work fine in HTP, but does not match with LTP).

I guess you have to accept that you cannot have all 3 options at the same time (or otherwise you can try to put them in separate frames and use the On/Off Buttons to ensure that only one is active at the same time).


Minor detail: on color Lavender i would set Red to zero.


I noticed that you created some nice effects using chasers.
I suggest you have a look at RGB Matrices, you can achieve a lot more (in an easier way) with those Functions.
I have added some examples to your workfile: