Fixture Palettes & Groups

[TheLightGuy]

Hello,

In light of Massimo's post of QLC's birthday (on the calendar to celebrate for next year), here are two major features I would like to see implemented that I believe would drastically speed up the programming time and busking speed for user of the program. The most important feature I would like to see implemented are palettes and fixture groups. As the program stands now, it seems, for the most part, to be built around using scenes to busk on and build looks with. This is a powerful way to program, but has its constraints to it (most notably being time-consuming). Using groups has already been implemented in programming scenes, but would be more powerful if it could then be used in busking, when used in conjuction with palettes. For those who don't understand the concept of palettes, these are (generally) non-fixture specific presets on certain groups of parameters that may be applied to groups of fixtures, or individual fixtures, while either programming or busking. I won't go into detail of what palettes are, because if you've used other consoles, you most likely already know what Im talking about. If you don't, here is a link that explains this theory:

http://www.onstagelighting.co.uk/learn- ... pallettes/

Generally speaking, palettes are not applied to intensity channels, but most consoles (that I have researched and programmed on) do not explicitly keep users from being able to use them in this way.

Palettes become an integral part of both programming and busking as it can drastically increase the rate at which an individual can program individual scenes and busking from palettes. For instance, while on one show that I had programmed in QLC+ (but didn't end up actually using in the show because of this feature, and instead programmed on the rental company-provided console that was provided day-of-show), I had 10 groups of fixtures with 8 colors each, totalling in 88 color scenes I had to create (the extra 8 were of the 8 colors applied to all fixtures, instead of the individual fixture groups). I don't have to explain how long it would take to program all 88 scenes, and keep in mind this was only for colors, not to mention positions, strobe looks, movement effects, etc. Instead of taking all that time, I could have selected all fixtures and programmed all 8 colors in a fraction of the time. Then, during the show, all I would have to do to select certain colors for certain fixtures is select a fixture group and a color palette, and the color scheme would only be applied to that selected fixture group. Here is a video from a similar show I worked where using palettes would be a great advantage in building the color grid that I explained in the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxDtGClRLOI&t=2s

Being able to use palettes for every channel type (intensity, color, position, etc.) is necessary for the usability of QLC+ across the board of individual users as it broadens the programming speed of the console itself. Even MA, which allows individuals to program shows in the way they find best, utilizes palettes. This video of an Avolites Tiger Touch is long, but shows a practical use of building palettes using groups.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgvyN2lvKyY&t=354s

I apologize for the long post, but wanted to be sure that the idea was understood by others. The other major idea that I would like to see implemented is increased support of creating positions within QLC+ (such as fanning), but I'll save that for a separate post. Most importantly is the implementation of palettes within the program. If that can be accomplished, I wouldn't see a reason to use another console besides QLC+, and many of my colleagues agree.

Thank you Massimo for all of your hard work! The program is an amazing piece of software, and I look forward to the next (paying) gig I get to use it on, so I can contribute more to the project.

[mcallegari]

Thanks for your detailed post. I'll definitely look into finding a solution.
First off though, I've got a preliminary question that can make the difference: in QLC+ terms, do palettes apply only to Scene functions ?

Cause if the answer is yes, I invite you to watch some QLC+ 5 videos. For example this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-UhT793fTw
Around 5:45 I start dumping Scenes. As you can see, QLC+ 5 has already some sort of "Palette-ready" system. It's "just" a matter of dumping those values into a new element called "Palette" rather than DMX channels/values in Scenes. Then a Scene can reference A) fixtures B) one or more palettes.
Sounds good ?

I want to point out that if this get through into being implemented, it will be for QLC+ 5 only. Since I already imagine it to be quite a large change, I do not intend to make the work twice on 4 & 5.

P.S. Fanning feature has been approved. See here: viewtopic.php?f=18&t=11992

[GGGss]

Then a Scene can reference A) fixtures B) one or more palettes.

Or [group of fixtures] (think like 'all washes' - We don't know how many there will be in the next venue)

[mcallegari]

Then a Scene can reference A) fixtures B) one or more palettes.

Or [group of fixtures] (think like 'all washes' - We don't know how many there will be in the next venue)

Yep, that too +1

[TheLightGuy]

Thanks for your detailed post. I'll definitely look into finding a solution.
First off though, I've got a preliminary question that can make the difference: in QLC+ terms, do palettes apply only to Scene functions ?

Cause if the answer is yes, I invite you to watch some QLC+ 5 videos. For example this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-UhT793fTw
Around 5:45 I start dumping Scenes. As you can see, QLC+ 5 has already some sort of "Palette-ready" system. It's "just" a matter of dumping those values into a new element called "Palette" rather than DMX channels/values in Scenes. Then a Scene can reference A) fixtures B) one or more palettes.
Sounds good ?

I want to point out that if this get through into being implemented, it will be for QLC+ 5 only. Since I already imagine it to be quite a large change, I do not intend to make the work twice on 4 & 5.

P.S. Fanning feature has been approved. See here: viewtopic.php?f=18&t=11992

Hi Massimo,

Palettes would be able to be used in the Virtual Console, as well as the Fixtures & Functions tab. Idealy, this would be another feature similar to "Scenes." However, Palettes are variable, in that if you were to record a Palette in a scene, then if the particular palette were updated, the Scene would reflect this update. In this sense, the scene would not hold specific values of the fixtures that hold the palette, but only the information that the fixtures (or group of fixtures) should play a certain palette. From there, whatever value that particular palette would hold, would be played. In the Virtual Console, you would idealy be able to select groups of fixtures (like washes, spots, etc.) and select certain palettes (like different color palettes, intensity, positions, etc.) to create different looks on the fly. Groups are custum created by the user, and wouldn't be automatically created. Also, palettes are generally (and I've never seen otherwise) static, and do not incorporate movement of any kind within the palette itself. The palette system in programming could be used to setup, for instance, 10 position looks, 10 colors, and 10 beam looks. From each of those, the user could Scenes a one of each palette, or use one group and one of each palette along with a different group and three different palettes (each palette is for a different value channel, ie. three of the same type of palette could not be played).

I highly encourage you to download the Avolites Titan software (free) if you have a Windows (ugh!) laptop at your disposale, and play around with the palettes and groups windows. This in conjunction with their visualizer I think will best explain the concept I am thinking of. Titan is a complex, to a point, software that is pretty straight-forward in its use, unlike MA (although it is Linux, so it may be more straigh-forward to understand), and using the software I think is the best way to grasp the concept of palettes.

When I was envisioning palettes within QLC+, I saw it in 5, and not 4. 4 was amazing, but from what I've seen so far, 5 is going to make a lot of high-end consoles obsolete. With palettes, I wouldn't see a need to use an Avo, High End, or much anything else, save a Grand MA (and really only then for its high-security features and backup console ability).

I just saw that topic after I submitted this one. I need to get it together!!

[amcsx4]

A palette based programing model is the cornerstone of professional lighting. It's the only feature missing that stops me from standardizing this software on every install I spec. If you pull off pallettes ill also be making this required software for my technical theater students(University level). Ill go as far as to say, the moment i see workable pallettes in this software ill develop ( and share) a replicatable hardware platform to go with it!

[mcallegari]

Before I start implementing this, I've got one question to clear some doubts.
This is Clay Paky SuperSharpy

The palettes I clearly see are:
- color (in this case CMY, but it could be RGB as well)
- dimmer
- position
- shutter
- gobo rotation (ch 12 & 13)
- frost (ch 16)
- focus (ch 17)

Now the doubt is: this fixture has 3 color wheels and 2 gobo wheels (Static Gobo, Rotation Gobo)
How can a palette know which channel to affect for those wheels ? How are you guys used to handle that ?

[andres robles]

Hello everyone, my way of using palettes and how I understand it is easier:

In avolites (pearl) there are 2 ways to create them, or automatically (according to the reading of the definition of accessories this creates buttons grouping properties of all selected fixtures ...
Example a button for red ect, as device manufacturers change continually the order of the gobos and colors, this usually fails)

The manual form is the interesting one:
In the case of different fixtures with different gobos and different channels to turn gobo, I usually create static gobos for paddles, gobo palettes with turn in a convenient static position, and paddles with different speeds of turn and stop, same with prism ect

In the case of the "pearl" the palettes will affect only the previously selected fixtures, being able to use them in one or the other or in all the fixtures and / or selected attributes ...

For me the easy and accurate thing was always to create them manually, almost like memories of scenes with special attributes .....

[TheLightGuy]

Hi Massimo,

In terms of your question with the SuperSharpy, the color palette could be applied to any of those. In this case, I would expect, the color palette to be applied to the CMY channels (or RGB, depending on the fixture) by default, unless otherwise programmed by the user (selecting the group of fixtures to use a different color instead of the default CMY color mixing). However, if a user wanted to update a palette to include the color wheels instead of the CMY color wheel, they could do so (updating palettes is also key in programming, to adjust colors to match, or positions to be in the right places over different venues).

Here's my personal programming style with using palettes. When I get to a venue, I first program in my basic color palettes (all red, magenta, blue, cyan, green, etc.). Then, I program more complex combinations of colors (downstage wash cyan, movers amber, upstage wash canary yellow, etc.). In QLC however, these "complex" colors wouldn't be needed as that's what scenes are already for (these color scenes could be quickly programmed using the existing color palettes; three different fixture groups with three different color palettes to record one scene).

Of course, it's up to QLC on how to divide fixture parameters into the different types of palettes. For instance, on the Chamsys consoles, there are intensity palettes, position palettes, color palettes, and beam palettes (which record values for gobos, shutter, strobe, prisms, and any other "beam-related" channels of fixtures).

I'll load up Ma2 today and see how it handles the SuperSharpy in recording palettes, but I'm pretty sure it records the CMY channels by default, unless otherwise programmed by the user.

[GGGss]

I would not expect the software to be that intelligent that if you come up with an unknown fixture, it automatically tries to bind its capabilities to the content of a palette... or vise versa

When f.i. a gobo is set in a palette, what are the chances that with fixture xyz this gobo is correct...
same goes for every other aspect of a fixture.

Things is that you have a 'preset' (a look) programmed and bound to external inputs - when changing environments it means adopting these presets vs the present fixture capabilities...
It would be so sweet that say 60% of workload could be automated. That the QLC+ 'generic gobo' could be bound automatically to the fixture's one.

[Solhowe857]

Hi Massimo,

In terms of your question with the SuperSharpy, the color palette could be applied to any of those. In this case, I would expect, the color palette to be applied to the CMY channels (or RGB, depending on the fixture) by default, unless otherwise programmed by the user (selecting the group of fixtures to use a different color instead of the default CMY color mixing). However, if a user wanted to update a palette to include the color wheels instead of the CMY color wheel, they could do so (updating palettes is also key in programming, to adjust colors to match, or positions to be in the right places over different venues).

Here's my personal programming style with using palettes. When I get to a venue, I first program in my basic color palettes (all red, magenta, blue, cyan, green, etc.). Then, I program more complex combinations of colors (downstage wash cyan, movers amber, upstage wash canary yellow, etc.). In QLC however, these "complex" colors wouldn't be needed as that's what scenes are already for (these color scenes could be quickly programmed using the existing color palettes; three different fixture groups with three different color palettes to record one scene).

Of course, it's up to QLC on how to divide fixture parameters into the different types of palettes. For instance, on the Chamsys consoles, there are intensity palettes, position palettes, color palettes, and beam palettes (which record values for gobos, shutter, strobe, prisms, and any other "beam-related" channels of fixtures).

I'll load up Ma2 today and see how it handles the SuperSharpy in recording palettes, but I'm pretty sure it records the CMY channels by default, unless otherwise programmed by the user.
By the way, I select palettes for myself here https://create.vista.com/colors/palettes/winter/ , since it is very convenient to initially see a suitable color scheme that matches well with each other, and then take the name of the colors for further design, this I find very convenient and saves a lot of time, since you do not need to manually select them .

Thank you very much for sharing this information, it's really quite convenient to initially separate colors into certain palettes, from simple to complex, so everything will work a little and create everything correctly. and thank you for wishing the platform with palettes as it is very useful, especially for me, since I myself can’t quite correctly choose the colors for myself, and now it can be done in no time.

[GGGss]

since I myself can’t quite correctly choose the colors for myself

Offtopic: Follow your heart and seek deepness into your soul - the right color will appear