please default shutter value OPEN

[giacomo]

hello community,
we will gain some time if the fixtures have the shutter default parameter set to open,

and possibly pan and tilt set to 85 (or whatever it's better, so we can see the light when we rise the intensity), I propose this simple rule to simplify our work.
thanks.

[GGGss]

Not all fixtures need a shutter command to open the beam...
While setting up, my movers always default to DMX 127 127 - this way, I can quickly judge if I need to invert a channel.
I see the rogues use fine channels for their color emittors... is QLC+ able to handle them nicely? (I guess not)

[giacomo]

Sometimes I don't understand your comments, I could also reply to my post that not all the fixtures have a pan and tilt!
85 is a third of the movement field but it could also be fine 127, the only issue with it is that you won't see the pan movement when the head is vertical.
I've just picked up the Rogue by coincidence for the group test in the 3d, then there are no palettes for shutter so I had to add an extra function + button with all the shutters open.

[Yestalgia]

hello community,
we will gain some time if the fixtures have the shutter default parameter set to open,
Screenshot from 2023-12-10 03-24-15.png
and possibly pan and tilt set to 85 (or whatever it's better, so we can see the light when we rise the intensity), I propose this simple rule to simplify our work.
thanks.

Not a bad suggestion... It is a pain having to deal with shutters in QLC+ but we'd need to assess the impact of opening the shutters by default.

[giacomo]

Maybe we should reverse the question: what is the benefit of having a shutter closed by default?
Curious for the answer.
This little correction would also help when changing fixtures.
Do you think it could be automated this task? Usually shutter @255 it's open.
We can also decide to have pan and tilt (coarse) @128 as it's usually for consoles, in the end it would be easier and nicer to have the same default position for all the fixtures.

[Yestalgia]

Maybe we should reverse the question: what is the benefit of having a shutter closed by default?
Curious for the answer.
This little correction would also help when changing fixtures.
Do you think it could be automated this task? Usually shutter @255 it's open.
We can also decide to have pan and tilt (coarse) @128 as it's usually for consoles, in the end it would be easier and nicer to have the same default position for all the fixtures.

The best way to do this in QLC+ I believe would be utilising the default value option in each fixture.

I could make a pull request which would set every fixture's shutter default value to be the first "Shutter Open" position.

Before I commit to that, I'd need approval from Massimo.

[mcallegari]

Maybe we should reverse the question: what is the benefit of having a shutter closed by default?
Curious for the answer.

While I have seen fixtures repositioning at half pan/tilt at boot, have you ever seen a fixture that opens its shutter at boot?
My answer would be: no.
Reason is simple (especially for discharge lamps): what if the fixture is pointing towards a curtain at maximum lamp power?
Do you really want to risk to burn a theatre down for a shutter open by default?

[giacomo]

well... to be fair this time I can answer to know the matter!
shutter and dimmer are 2 different parameters so maybe you have never seen the shutter open for this reason...
I've checked the personality from other 2 important software before asking for it, Chamsys and Avolites they both have the shutter open by default.
it's also a good practice to control the lamp from the console, as well it's not recommended to keep the shutter closed for a long time with the lamp on, if you mind an early wear.

[mcallegari]

Ok, they're actually two different topics. One thing is what the fixture does at boot, one thing is the default values a personality carries when loaded from a console.
Then I would say: let's do what is the best practice. For example: what does MA do?

[GGGss]

Ok, they're actually two different topics. One thing is what the fixture does at boot, one thing is the default values a personality carries when loaded from a console.
Then I would say: let's do what is the best practice. For example: what does MA do?

gMA lets the decision be made by the operator. Changing a default value is 3 clicks away in the patch.

[giacomo]

@GGGss What do you mean? the first time you log in, the console is asking you to decide about the shutter default parameter?
In chamsys you can customize your default and locate parameters globally and per show.

Anyway I'm not interested much to copy from other software when the workflow in qlc+(v5) is different.
The fixtures could have the color pink and the prism on by default and it wouldn't bother me much if I can locate them or recall a palette.
We need to focus more on the qlc+ user experience instead of some abstract rules and bias:
right now in 2D view
1) you select a fixture,
2) then click on the intensity widget and rise it,
3) then click on the shutter widget and select a value,
4) then click on the color widget and select a color,
5) then click on the position widget and try to find were the head is pointing,
btw in linux/gnome the position widget is not usable and every time I've to digit numbers till I get close to the position,
6) then the zoom it's at the minimum value by default so probably you have to click the zoom widget too, then click again to digit a number.
..... finally if everything was correct you'll see the light and the fixture is working! you can start using it ....
Does someone find this a pleasant/efficient workflow today?
We can improve many things if we have more attention for the user.
Happy and Good Xmas!

[edogawa]

I don't know gMA but learned a lot about ETC Eos this autumn, as we got an Ion XE in my theater.

Eos Software can store "Home" values for each and every fixture that is patched.
To achieve this you create a Preset (which is a kind of meta palette and can store all parameters that otherwise usually are put into intensity/focus/color/beam palettes), and tell the console/software in Setup/Device that this is the Home preset.
Then you set the parameter to your desired value and update the home preset to contain it.
From then on, when selecting a fixture it will default to this, and to alter a different value in a cue or sub, you can just type e.g. <ch nr> @ [Home] [Enter] and update your cue or sub.

See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHQJck5 ... e=youtu.be -it uses pan and tilt to explain but this should work for shutter the same way, I've used it to have different default Zoom angles for my Zoom PARs .

[giacomo]

Hallo and thanks Edgar,
it's good to know what other software does but we should speak about v5 too,
do you have an opinion about this thread? do you approve/disapprove this change?

[edogawa]

I don't have access to fixtures that have shutter channels (yet) and have next to zero experience with them, so no clear opinion...

It's been some time since I've tested v5, to be honest, and I don't see me doing that in tthe near future, I'm sorry to say. Started learning Eos this autumn, and it will keep me busy for a while I'm sure..

I mostly do theater lighting - offline, not real-time, so to say, set up scenes and crossfade times in dedicated lighting rehearsals to finally run a fixed cuelist for a run-though performance - as long as I can get my lamps to do what I or the director want to see, I'm fine.

I just thought I'd mention the Home palette/preset thing as i find it's very useful and could solve your issue with a closed-at-value-0 shutter. I haven't looked at palettes in v5, as I just started to understand what they are about while learning Eos.

[giacomo]

Thanks again Edgar,
your answer is emblematic to me, I believed that slowly people were fading away from the software and since years I don''t see any proposition from the 'old' users or developers.
We've lost interest and expectations, nevertheless it's not the end because v4 will continue to be used in its niche applications.
This thread it's an example, apart Yestalgia and the negative advocate by Massimo, none has replied on the point of this no-cost improvement.
More and more the answers in the posts are about other software and of course when people don't use qlc+ they do not mind to improve its usability.
Obviously, there are already fixtures where the shutter it's open @00 and no issues or burned curtains were reported.

Regards.

ps. to not be misunderstood, I'm not criticizing anyone, nor Sir Edgar, it's my picture of it.

[GGGss]

Obviously, there are already fixtures where the shutter it's open @00 and no issues or burned curtains were reported.

LOL - I bet ya! In a not-so-far past, we had 4 moving heads (with arc lamps inside). 2 of them were hardware-wise set to the inverse pan. They burnt their neighbours' gobo. The color gobo was set and was shine onto with the bulb inside and the bulb of the neighbouring mover... the molten gobo made the wheel stuck in a stuck position and the movers had to be replaced.

All LOL aside: I'm trying to recall the used setup procedure. You come in in an unknown environment, and you are presented with a fixture sheet and address list. I would start patching fixtures and, via simple desk, verify that they are addressable. For this, I will have to set different values for numerous channels. If all goes well, programming can begin.
BUT: if things go wrong (hardware-wise or documentation-wise, or, or, ...), one will have to dig deep into the system. A DMX tester will be used. Now, it is of the utmost importance that you know the exact values which are sent to what channel. In this scenario, I surely will make sure that 'default values' are completely overridden. The search for: 'Where does this value now come from?' will need more time than simply overruling everything.

That said:
Your proposal makes sense, you will gain some time with defaults. Where to set them, and what influence does that have on the workflow? I'm sure that the next question will come for relative negative values. And since we are comparing other platforms, default values will get an alternate colour in a DMX sheet or monitor, indicating that these values come from an alternative default (not zero because of default is set).
As long as the solution gives clear information to the user so it can be debugged (again, the question: 'Where does this value come from?'), I'm pro the solution.

[giacomo]

Thanks for your considerations Fredije,
I'm more for a simpler approach in qlc+ otherwise this will never happen, personally I wouldn't bother about the extra color info, to me it's important the user experience today and the qlc+ logic: till now all the parameters are @00 without any consideration about what they mean.
So if the rule was shutter open by default we would have already more info by default and save time.
Indeed, all these values should have a meaning: what if a fixture has a gobo when the channel is @00? Shouldn't it be changed to not have a gobo by default?
Same for position, it doesn't say much a pan and tilt @00, where is pointing this fixture?
Another result of a rational approach would be a better interchangeability between fixtures: you've used one without a shutter and on the next venue you change to a one with a shutter, by "default" your show should be still working.

[mcallegari]

Giacomo, once again I see you are complaining about something and more importantly you're using the "we" subject and not the "I" subject.
Your opinion is not everyone's opinion. Please make sure you always have this in mind when you write your usual sharp comments or when you attempt to attack me personally.

I think you always give the fact that I'm not considering the feedbacks I read in these forums. Well, I do but from the millionth time, I have a life and this is my spare time project. If you don't accept this, then I kindly invite you to move away from QLC+ once and for all and go complain somewhere else, perhaps about a well paid product. (as if complaining to MA gets you a fix the day after LOL)

You seem also to forget my indication to check the activity on GitHub, where this project actually lives. You would have found that A) yesterday I implemented a highlight feature in v5 and B) 2023 seen almost twice the activity compared to 2022.
In any case, QLC+ is not going to be released once a week as you probably would like. Again, if you don't accept this, please consider other products where your opinions are treated in real time.

[giacomo]

well... to be fair - 2 - I'll answer only the first sentence: this thread was specifically addressed to the community because we can also help improving qlc+, it was not about "opinions" but the real workflow in v5, for the people who try to use it.
I don't see what you find so offensive in it, probably your own answer.
Anyway I'll respect your opinion.
A Good Year to all the community.