Fade in and Fade Out times are still missing in the EFX Editor and they will add an overall professional look to qlcplus,
in the last production I've used it quite a lot and it was really a pity that I couldn't "fade in/out" an effect.
(also embarrassing to explain to the technicians that I was missing this basic feature)
When you switch from one fx to another you get always a glitch in the movement/color and with the music it's really an evident break in the rhythm.
Thanks!
[to answer in advance some suggestions: it should be simple to play it live, I don't want to add extra complexity to avoid this issue]
Complete the EFX Editor with Fade Times
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giacomo
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To be clear with the meaning of fade times in fx:
usually the fade-in is the time that an fx takes to reach its amplitude and viceversa during fade-out.
It's applied to the attribute controlled by the fx, so it can be any parameter.
This is how I would implement them in the EFX Editor.
usually the fade-in is the time that an fx takes to reach its amplitude and viceversa during fade-out.
It's applied to the attribute controlled by the fx, so it can be any parameter.
This is how I would implement them in the EFX Editor.
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lukelissenberg
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I agree with this. For my use case it would be very beneficial if the 'fade time' would be used to make the moving heads move intelligently (or at least slowly) from their previous position to the EFX function, instead of the instant jerky movement that happens.
I realize that I could start an EFX function with the dimmers off, then turn them on after a couple second and there wouldn't be any visible jerky movement.. but the way I run tracks with midi cues, it is necessary that EFX functions and dimmer intensity be triggered on the downbeat of a song section. To counter this I have created "Pre-EFX" positions scenes that move the heads into the start position of the EFX I want to trigger.. sometimes I am able to put these before song sections to prevent the jerky movement, but it is not always possible.
I will soon be experimenting with scenes + relative position EFX's to see if it will solve the problem but I am not optimistic (this method is laid out in Massimo's Video Tutorial #7 by the way).. Also whatever this guy is doing may work? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wma7QAZ ... polszewski
If anyone has suggestions on how to solve this I would be happy to hear them.
I realize that I could start an EFX function with the dimmers off, then turn them on after a couple second and there wouldn't be any visible jerky movement.. but the way I run tracks with midi cues, it is necessary that EFX functions and dimmer intensity be triggered on the downbeat of a song section. To counter this I have created "Pre-EFX" positions scenes that move the heads into the start position of the EFX I want to trigger.. sometimes I am able to put these before song sections to prevent the jerky movement, but it is not always possible.
I will soon be experimenting with scenes + relative position EFX's to see if it will solve the problem but I am not optimistic (this method is laid out in Massimo's Video Tutorial #7 by the way).. Also whatever this guy is doing may work? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wma7QAZ ... polszewski
If anyone has suggestions on how to solve this I would be happy to hear them.
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GGGss
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Every console has issues here or there when coming from a static view, to a dynamic (generated) one. Even with MIB (Moving In Black) features, it still needs some love to be unnoticed by the audience. Idealistically, an EFX should be able to be faded-in and the static view to be used as a start as soon as the EFX starts fading. That is the theory... in practice, however...
All electric machines work on smoke... when the smoke escapes... they don't work anymore
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giacomo
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Fredje,
take a part in the request, say yes or no.
(As for your example, I'm 100 times glad that Moving in Black it exists.)
Wouldn't be better to have the efx editor fully functional and this useful feature?
Otherwise why don't remove these fade times if there is no interest to make them doing something.
Come on people!
take a part in the request, say yes or no.
(As for your example, I'm 100 times glad that Moving in Black it exists.)
Wouldn't be better to have the efx editor fully functional and this useful feature?
Otherwise why don't remove these fade times if there is no interest to make them doing something.
Come on people!
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mcallegari
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What about movement acceleration curves embedded into professional fixtures? How can QLC+ EFX know about them?
I guess you're talking about low-end fixtures here without any curve, so the result is obviously jumpy.
If I understand correctly, you want fade-in to produce many more positions during a transition? Then I don't understand what's the meaning of fade-out here...
As for MIB, please let's not mix things as usual (e.g. dimmer control in RGB matrix)
Controlling the dimming in a EFX function doesn't make any sense. Each QLC+ function is specialized in something specific. EFX is specialized in movements, not dimming.
I guess you're talking about low-end fixtures here without any curve, so the result is obviously jumpy.
If I understand correctly, you want fade-in to produce many more positions during a transition? Then I don't understand what's the meaning of fade-out here...
As for MIB, please let's not mix things as usual (e.g. dimmer control in RGB matrix)
Controlling the dimming in a EFX function doesn't make any sense. Each QLC+ function is specialized in something specific. EFX is specialized in movements, not dimming.
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giacomo
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hey Massimo,
the MIB was just an answer to an example and we're not speaking about it.
What I mean it's simple:
_ the fx has a "Width" of 127 and a fade-in/out of 5 sec;
_ when you start the fx the "Width" reaches the value of 127 in 5 sec;
_ when you stop the fx the "Width" goes to 0 in 5 sec.
Straight and clear!
Together with the hold time it can expand the EFX usability in an very easy way.
Have a good Sunday.
the MIB was just an answer to an example and we're not speaking about it.
What I mean it's simple:
_ the fx has a "Width" of 127 and a fade-in/out of 5 sec;
_ when you start the fx the "Width" reaches the value of 127 in 5 sec;
_ when you stop the fx the "Width" goes to 0 in 5 sec.
Straight and clear!
Together with the hold time it can expand the EFX usability in an very easy way.
Have a good Sunday.
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GGGss
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Please add the 'height' attribute into the equation also...
And only for EFX in relative mode? Or do we want fade-in / -out functionality in absolute mode also?
And only for EFX in relative mode? Or do we want fade-in / -out functionality in absolute mode also?
All electric machines work on smoke... when the smoke escapes... they don't work anymore
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giacomo
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Yes of course Fredjie, it's was just an example to explain it briefly.
But a good point is your second question:
I'd suggest that iin absolute mode the EFX Fade Time controls both the time needed to reach the amplitude and the time needed to reach the position (that for simplicity it will be the same time parameter).
When a more detailed control is needed, one should use the EFX in relative mode and have the positions controlled by different functions with their own times.
What do you think?
But a good point is your second question:
I'd suggest that iin absolute mode the EFX Fade Time controls both the time needed to reach the amplitude and the time needed to reach the position (that for simplicity it will be the same time parameter).
When a more detailed control is needed, one should use the EFX in relative mode and have the positions controlled by different functions with their own times.
What do you think?
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GGGss
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In absolute mode the set pan and tilt value will be hit hard; so an abrupt movement. Then the fade-in kicks in applying the asked amount of EFX to that position.
Therefore, I see it only working nicely in relative mode, where, when you fire the EFX, the current running positions will be used as a base and the amount of EFX will be calculated on top of that.
In the preparation of using (position) presets, it would be nice if relative base positions with running EFX would be recalculated when there is another mechanism running changing the base positions.
Therefore, I see it only working nicely in relative mode, where, when you fire the EFX, the current running positions will be used as a base and the amount of EFX will be calculated on top of that.
In the preparation of using (position) presets, it would be nice if relative base positions with running EFX would be recalculated when there is another mechanism running changing the base positions.
All electric machines work on smoke... when the smoke escapes... they don't work anymore
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giacomo
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I was assuming that the efx could behave like other functions in qlc+ and reach an absolute position with time,
it would have been just 1 button for both position and fx :)
Anyway, the important feature needed is to fade in (out) the fx width/height.
it would have been just 1 button for both position and fx :)
Anyway, the important feature needed is to fade in (out) the fx width/height.
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GGGss
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OFF topic:
And there is a problem on stage! You want a mover from say 172 pan going to the abs value for the EFX of say 96 - doing this transition will light up your backdrop as an unwanted side-effect.
All electric machines work on smoke... when the smoke escapes... they don't work anymore
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giacomo
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Sorry Fredjie but your logic is misleading:
1 the same identical issue would happen in relative mode;
2 if one decides to use the efx with an absolute position, usually he should take care of the fx geometry as well, isn't it?
3 if you're speaking of specific cases, it's all fine because every feature has its own specific issues.
1 the same identical issue would happen in relative mode;
2 if one decides to use the efx with an absolute position, usually he should take care of the fx geometry as well, isn't it?
3 if you're speaking of specific cases, it's all fine because every feature has its own specific issues.
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mcallegari
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Guys, I'm willing to implement what's needed, but I need to be 100% sure of what to do before changing the code.
Can you please provide a simple example project and tell me the sequence of functions and what you expect to see?
Thanks
Can you please provide a simple example project and tell me the sequence of functions and what you expect to see?
Thanks
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giacomo
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Here a basic example for a live fx use and it was interesting, I've tried absolute and relative mode, position, color and intensity.
Actually the absolute mode it's quite straightforward because you don't need to push first the position and then the fx, also it seems to me that the absolute mode works correctly with colors and intensity, not the relative mode.
When you try an intensity or color fx in relative mode, qlc+ only add the positive part of the fx. (I didn't change the fixture personality)
[there are 3 base positions but only the tilt is changing]
I'd implement the fade times in relative mode as written above,
eg. the fx has a "width" of 127 and a 5 sec fade-in, 3 sec fade out:
_ when you start the fx the "width" start from 0 and reaches the value of 127 in 5 sec,
_ when you stop the fx the "width" goes to 0 in 3 sec.
To keep it consistent, in absolute mode I would control the same way both the fx position and amplitude - in other words they should fade with the same time. When a separate control over the fade times is required one can use the relative mode to split position and fx times.
Actually the absolute mode it's quite straightforward because you don't need to push first the position and then the fx, also it seems to me that the absolute mode works correctly with colors and intensity, not the relative mode.
When you try an intensity or color fx in relative mode, qlc+ only add the positive part of the fx. (I didn't change the fixture personality)
efx.qxw- (45.05 KiB) Downloaded 417 times
I'd implement the fade times in relative mode as written above,
eg. the fx has a "width" of 127 and a 5 sec fade-in, 3 sec fade out:
_ when you start the fx the "width" start from 0 and reaches the value of 127 in 5 sec,
_ when you stop the fx the "width" goes to 0 in 3 sec.
To keep it consistent, in absolute mode I would control the same way both the fx position and amplitude - in other words they should fade with the same time. When a separate control over the fade times is required one can use the relative mode to split position and fx times.
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mcallegari
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I have no idea how to implement EFX fade out, especially when another EFX is supposed to fade in in the next cue.
That is why this is not complete.
That is why this is not complete.
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giacomo
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From a not software or mathematical point of view,
maybe you can start simple by adding the fade-out time with the same reversed behavior of the fade-in, it works very nicely and it would be already a neat result.
For the time being if someone needs to switch between different efxes he can always adjust the fade-in/out time as needed, eg. 0 sec as it's now or use a fast fade-out to hide the transition.
About your question:
I haven't try it right now so maybe it's already possible: the overlapping of efxes can be implemented as a "sum"?
eg.
one has a little circle efx running (pan and tilt) and adds a vertical line efx (only tilt), the result should be a vertical oval (or a different figure depending on both the loop times)
If this "sum" is possible and true, then each fade-in/out time should behave on its own independently, this is what I would expect.
Thanks Massimo.
maybe you can start simple by adding the fade-out time with the same reversed behavior of the fade-in, it works very nicely and it would be already a neat result.
For the time being if someone needs to switch between different efxes he can always adjust the fade-in/out time as needed, eg. 0 sec as it's now or use a fast fade-out to hide the transition.
About your question:
I haven't try it right now so maybe it's already possible: the overlapping of efxes can be implemented as a "sum"?
eg.
one has a little circle efx running (pan and tilt) and adds a vertical line efx (only tilt), the result should be a vertical oval (or a different figure depending on both the loop times)
If this "sum" is possible and true, then each fade-in/out time should behave on its own independently, this is what I would expect.
Thanks Massimo.