DTS Scena 200 Theatre LED

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Freddy_H
Posts: 48
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:40 am
Location: Belgium
Real Name: Freddy Hoogstoel

Hi all,

For our theatre group, we're switching from 1000W Halogen spot to LED
Didn't find a definition so I made one ... (passed the online validator):
DTS-SCENA-LED-200.qxf
(5.43 KiB) Downloaded 126 times
As the manual covers multiple versions of the same model (Fresnel/PC lens, different K values, ...) I left out certain physical attributes.
Dimensions, weight, power consumption ... however, are specified.

Manual can be downloaded from the product page:
https://dts-lighting.it/products/conven ... a-led-200/

Enjoy,

Freddy
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mcallegari
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Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2015 9:09 am
Location: Italy
Real Name: Massimo Callegari
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Added, thanks
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Freddy_H
Posts: 48
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:40 am
Location: Belgium
Real Name: Freddy Hoogstoel

Hi Massimo,

As I learned in viewtopic.php?t=16318 , this fixture has been updated:
  • Edited the Shutter Channel from Custom / Fine (LSB) to Custom / Coarse (MSB) - as suggested by Ken
  • Edited the Dimmer Channel from Custom / Fine (LSB) to Master Dimmer preset - as suggested by Michel
  • Edited the Dimmer Fine Channel from Custom / Fine (LSB) to Master Dimmer Fine preset - as suggested by Michel
I have also been wondering if the mistakes I made could be detected by the Fixture validator, but I think this might not be so obvious ... (on which channel types to 'impose' coarse (MSB) or one of the master dimmer presets ???)

Freddy
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DTS-SCENA-LED-200.qxf
(5.25 KiB) Downloaded 107 times
Last edited by Freddy_H on Thu Apr 20, 2023 7:37 am, edited 3 times in total.
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edogawa
Posts: 630
Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 10:34 am
Real Name: Edgar Aichinger

As individual DMX channels only transport 8bit values, 16bit dimming involves two channels.
I don't know if this is defined in a spec or something, but AFAIR all fixtures supporting 16bit, that I've encountered so far, used an ordering of MSB channel first, then LSB channel
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Freddy_H
Posts: 48
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:40 am
Location: Belgium
Real Name: Freddy Hoogstoel

[removed]
Last edited by Freddy_H on Fri Apr 14, 2023 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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MichelSliepenbeek
Posts: 716
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2023 10:24 am
Location: Nederland
Real Name: Michel Sliepenbeek

Just trying to follow Freddy and Edgar ("thinking out loud", like in a Brain Storm Session), you could define a rule that "you cannot have a Fine (LSB) channel without also having a Coarse (MSB) channel". This might be used to change the Fixture Editor, that in every situation where you select a Fine LSB it would start a "tell me where the matching Coarse(MSB) is" kind of dialog.
AFAIR all fixtures supporting 16bit, that I've encountered so far, used an ordering of MSB channel first, then LSB channel
AFAIR all fixtures supporting 16bit, that I've encountered so far, always had multiple modes: one or more for 8 bit usage and one or more for 16 bit usage.

Another rule therefor could be "you cannot have Fine (LSB) channels in 8 Bit Mode".
This doesn't help us much, because there is not a "8 Bit/ 16 Bit attribute" on the Mode entity.
And even if it was, the opposite rule "you must have Fine (LSB) in 16 bits mode" does not apply just like that: a fixture may have several modes that offer only partial 16 bit usage (e.g. one mode for 16 bit on Pan and Tilt, but 8 bit on Master Level, another mode for 8 bit on Pan and Tilt, but 16 bit on Master Level and a third mode for 16 bit on Pan and Tilt and also on Master Level).

You could also implement it as a typical type of an "Acts On" situation (specific FSB acts on specific LSB), but what i learned so far on this forum, is that many users don't understand when to use (or better: not to use) the "Acts on" (i admit also having to learn this the hard way).
Here you have the risk of frustrating a lot of novice users (myself included) only to please a few expert users.
In this situation i would apply the KISS rule (Keep It Simple Stupid) :) ;)

Because we are not the first ones to come across this problem, we could also use the "follow the leader" approach.
Just find out how they handle this in GrandMA, Chamsys, ETC, ......... and copy that.

This is the moment that the expert users should kick in. :) ;)
A QLC Workspace is like a Bob Ross painting: "it's your world, you can create whatever you want!"
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Freddy_H
Posts: 48
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:40 am
Location: Belgium
Real Name: Freddy Hoogstoel

I've been letting this sink in (and ferment) for a while ...
What do you think of this logic proposal for the fixture editor (I just applied my reasoning logic here, as Michel wrote, time for expert users to kick in):

1) on the 'Channels' tab / Edit Channel window
  • By default a channel role is MSB (already so)
  • IF a channel role is set to LSB (either 'by hand' or by selecting one of the 'Fine' presets)
    THEN a related MSB channel must be provided (i.e. one cannot define a LSB channel before defining the associated MSB channel)
2) on the 'Modes' tab / Edit Mode window (see image)
  • IF a mode contains a LSB channel THEN the related MSB channel for that LSB channel MUST also be present in that mode
  • For a MSB channel, the 'related channel' is of type 'Acts On' and has a dropdown list of "-" plus all other (cannot act on itself) MSB channels present in the Mode
  • For a LSB channel, the 'related channel' if of type 'LSB For' and is set to the related MSB channel (not editable)
3) on the Aliases tab
  • IF the Base channel role is MSB
    THEN the Override channel MUST also be MSB
  • IF the Base channel role is LSB
    THEN the Override channel MUST also be LSB AND related to the same MSB channel as the Base channel
Going back to the 'Acts On' documentation in the QLC+ manual, this would even allow for 16-bit speed control of a gobo ('Speed Fine' is LSB for 'Speed' which acts on 'Gobo') ... (should such a device ever exist) ...

Maybe this Fixture editor (and/or validator) enhancement is better split of from the updated fixture and moved to the requests section of the forum ?
Attachments
Mode_editor.jpg
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