Submaster behavior

[TEL0000]

Hi,

My problem is, that submaster faders don't work when the scenes get triggert from buttons outside the frame.
Other things work even when triggered from outside the frame, like the solo behavior for example. But the submaster does not. I do understand, that it might be the intended behavior. But it my case it's a problem, where i don't know how to work arround it.

I want to be able to the intensity of each group of fixtures by a midi controller. As far as i know submasters are the only option for real proportional control over the intensity Independent from chases running on the fixtures. But i also want to control some things globally without losing individual fader control..

I have attached an example project, to better understand my problem. My real projects are much bigger and also contain dimmer chases, so using direct dimmer channels for intensity control is not an option.

Maybe someone has an idea how to solve this?

Thanks,
TEL0000

[mcallegari]

How about adding a submaster in the global control frame too?

[TEL0000]

The submaster on the global frame wouldn't give me individual control.

Think of it like this: Fixure 1 are all my Spot Moving Heads, Fixure 2 all my washes, Fixture 3 my LED-Pars ... and so on. And what i want a achieve is, that whatever is running on all those lights, i always have control over the intensity of the individual groups on my faders. So when i dim my moving lights down, and start another global color, or dimmer chase, or whatever, the moving light will still be dimmed and i can bring them up again.

Any other Ideas? I thought this wouldn't be hard to do, but i din't find a solution.

[GGGss]

The idea of having submasters is to limit light intensity - without the HTP rules takes place.
If you now want to overrule the light limit set by a submaster, is a conceptual fault.

In all my setups the groups are under submaster control and all (intensity) functions bound to that group are put inside a frame so submaster can control them.
The trick I use to achieve this is having a slider in level control feeding a channel in a loopback universe. The channel in the loopback universe is bound to the submaster control inside the functions frame(s). Frames can be multiple if needed... So all function fired for a group are now under the intensity control of the submaster(s).

[TEL0000]

The idea of having submasters is to limit light intensity - without the HTP rules takes place.
If you now want to overrule the light limit set by a submaster, is a conceptual fault.

Exactly. I don't want the scenes to overrule the submaster. The submaster should always limit the light intensity.
But the scenes ignore the submaster if they are started from a button outside the frame.

In all my setups the groups are under submaster control and all (intensity) functions bound to that group are put inside a frame so submaster can control them.
The trick I use to achieve this is having a slider in level control feeding a channel in a loopback universe. The channel in the loopback universe is bound to the submaster control inside the functions frame(s). Frames can be multiple if needed... So all function fired for a group are now under the intensity control of the submaster(s).

To be honest, i didn't understand your solution. Why do you need the loopback level to control the submaster instead of controlling the submaster directly?

[GGGss]

To be honest, i didn't understand your solution. Why do you need the loopback level to control the submaster instead of controlling the submaster directly?

You are right ...

In my setup with touchscreen, BCF2000 & Novation launchpad, the VC looks much neater without the submasters taking some place up.
Say you have a matrix groups and coulours and a matrix of groups and their intensity chasers, having a level control in submaster mode, you'll end up with 12+ submasters.
With the BCF2000 motorized faders the feedback would be cumbersome...
That's why I have one 'main' submaster bound to a real fader (and 4-8 copies via loopback)

[TEL0000]

I think i've found a solution, by triggering hidden faders with loopbacks.
So for global presets i'm using loopback scenes now instead of collections.

It's not very elegant and a lot of work, but it seems to work pretty good.

I've attached the working example, for anyone who may have the same problem.
The faders that get triggered are hidden behind the solo frames.