Designing a show....basic principals help please

[hypernurd]

Dear community,

I've made a pretty solid start with this, frankly awesome, app.

After several weeks of learning (and help from some fine folks on here ) I've got myself to a point where my VC can 'live' control my fixtures. This includes PARs, moving heads, washes, laser, RGB panels, etc. Many of the controls for these devices (X/Y pad, RGB Matrix, etc) are really 'real-time' controls and as such takes the hard work out of programming. That said, I now want to create a show. So, given that the DMX values for these fixtures are changing how does one go about creating functions that replicate the 'live' motion/change these widgets enable?

For example, lets say I want to have two moving heads (LED Wash 1&3) fading between red & blue in a vertical line asymmetric sweep whilst heads 2&4 are flashing on off (purple lets say) and moving in a figure of 8. How would I put that together? Equally, how would I add in other fixtures and have these play simultaneously? Do I really have to create literally dozens (if not hundreds) of scenes and use either chasers or sequences and then copy these to the show timeline? How does one create a scene from a 'live' function (I know how just not sure its going to give me the same result as I'm seeing).

Sorry for the Noob (probably stupid) question here. I have zero experience of lighting design and whilst I'm pretty happy with my VC, I'm not going to be able to use this whilst playing my bass

I've attached my 'Main Setup' project file as is (not finished but functional). I have also been experimenting with loopbacks and taken a slightly different approach with a second file I've also attached (Feedback Dimmers for MH).

It would be great to get some feedback as to what I've come up with and hopefully some pointers on how to now approach creating functions that can be recalled for 'The Show'

Thanks in advance.

Hypernurd

PS - I've included the fixture definitions zip file too.

[GGGss]

Hypernurd,

I think you came to a point where you have to decide if you are going in 'busking'-mode 80% of the time or the you will trigger an automated show and intervene 20% of the time... (Busking being controlling all aspects of the lightfront with you fingers, toes, bum, ...)

While you are playing the bass - I guess you won't have that much time pressing pedals - so I'd go in pre-programmed mode.
Like your band composes a playlist - you could compose a 'master' cue list with every show element in it. t-20 (houselights down) t-10 (stage obscure) t-5 (entry lights) t-0 (band members), t+5 song 1
song 1 is a cuelist on it's own: chorus, solo, chorus, ...
next a 'reset' in between numbers - you halt all running functions (or left overs which weren't suppose to run)
song 2 (again a cuelist with all light stuff inside)
etc

The only moments you would have to press pedals are at the start, the solo-moments, and the end of a song?
and IMHO apply the KISS principle ... (not your supposed 2 lights blue / red in vertical motion with 2 light flashing in a number of 8 in between ... Yikes ! That won't look good at all) What would work is with your 4 movers that you'd change position of the 4 in synchronised mode and have them chase the red - blue colors (although blue - orange / yellow works better together with red & purple)

My 2cts (over lunch)

[Ham]

Bass players unite! I also am a bassist playing LD or maybe a LD that plays bass. I am fortunate to not to have to play and run a light show most of the time, but I have done it before. There are several things that can really help you if you do that I use a Novation Launch Control XL to control scenes using 16 programmable buttons and 8 sliders. It configures nicely in QLC+ as a MIDI controller and is great for starting and stopping functions. A second vote for keeping it simple.

Try to use effects to manage your Moving heads. It is a lot simpler than a whole bunch of scenes in a chase.

I have been using QLC+ now for four years and I am still learning cool things, or maybe Massimo and crew are just programming new cool things.

One thing I have in every work file is a solo frame that has a function to light every light I have one by one. I use it just to test the set up. It has saved my but many times just running through the test frame. You find the odd bad cable or unplugged fixtures etc.

Just play with it.

[Ham]

This is my main show file. I use muti page frames to simplify the visual layout substantially.

[hypernurd]

Hypernurd,

I think you came to a point where you have to decide if you are going in 'busking'-mode 80% of the time or the you will trigger an automated show and intervene 20% of the time... (Busking being controlling all aspects of the lightfront with you fingers, toes, bum, ...)

While you are playing the bass - I guess you won't have that much time pressing pedals - so I'd go in pre-programmed mode.
Like your band composes a playlist - you could compose a 'master' cue list with every show element in it. t-20 (houselights down) t-10 (stage obscure) t-5 (entry lights) t-0 (band members), t+5 song 1
song 1 is a cuelist on it's own: chorus, solo, chorus, ...
next a 'reset' in between numbers - you halt all running functions (or left overs which weren't suppose to run)
song 2 (again a cuelist with all light stuff inside)
etc

The only moments you would have to press pedals are at the start, the solo-moments, and the end of a song?
and IMHO apply the KISS principle ... (not your supposed 2 lights blue / red in vertical motion with 2 light flashing in a number of 8 in between ... Yikes ! That won't look good at all) What would work is with your 4 movers that you'd change position of the 4 in synchronised mode and have them chase the red - blue colors (although blue - orange / yellow works better together with red & purple)

My 2cts (over lunch)

Hey GGGss,

Thanks for the Sage-like advice. i agree wit the KISS principal and had to laugh at your appraisal of my examples - of course Blue & Orange would work better as complimentary colours (I still remember my colour theory from primary school too )

The quesiton I was trying to get answers to though has not really been answered. I am still trying to understand how one moves form playing with a live VC to a point where I have functions that are replicable and reusable. This is particularly the issue for EFX and RGB Matrix functions. I don't understand how one 'programs' different functions to trigger at the same time or with some offsets - I guess this is 'Show Mode'?

I have not used Cue Lists yet so perhaps this is the area I have missed. That said, aren't cuelists also designed for 'live' (i.e. hands-on) use?

Sorry for continued basic questions - I am hoping some of the more seasoned 'pros' on here could impart their experience and approaches.

Best wishes,

Hypernurd

[hypernurd]

Bass players unite! I also am a bassist playing LD or maybe a LD that plays bass. I am fortunate to not to have to play and run a light show most of the time, but I have done it before. There are several things that can really help you if you do that I use a Novation Launch Control XL to control scenes using 16 programmable buttons and 8 sliders. It configures nicely in QLC+ as a MIDI controller and is great for starting and stopping functions. A second vote for keeping it simple.

Try to use effects to manage your Moving heads. It is a lot simpler than a whole bunch of scenes in a chase.

I have been using QLC+ now for four years and I am still learning cool things, or maybe Massimo and crew are just programming new cool things.

One thing I have in every work file is a solo frame that has a function to light every light I have one by one. I use it just to test the set up. It has saved my but many times just running through the test frame. You find the odd bad cable or unplugged fixtures etc.

Just play with it.

Hi Ham,

Thanks for your input - much appreciated.

I am planning to use some form of MIDI trigger. I have a line6 Helix that can do this as well as a Midi-Wing (a bluetooth device that attaches to the lower horn of a bass/guitar). Not sure which will work best but I will share my setup once I get there

I like the 'test' function idea - that is for sure something I will use.

However, as I touched upon in my response to GGGss, I am still at a loss to understand how one moves from messing about with a live 'VC' to having a series of functions that can be scheduled - so I can concentrate on doing my main job - staying in time and driving the songs

It seems to me that the VC has an awesome amount of configuration power but creating scenes or animations that can be recalled from it is more challenging. Am i missing something?

Best wishes,

Hypernurd.