[Solved] Buttons and remote controle: avoid toggle

[onnorvld]

I like to use QLC+ in a theatre together with Show Cue System (but I think my request will be useful for QLab and other remote control systems). I found all functionality to do want I need to do except one. To control buttons with scene remotely from Show Cue System I should be sure that a scene is switch ON what I send an OSC command to QLC+. With the current toggle function this is not possible.

I have thought of 3 possible solutions:

1. Create a button and have the possibility to select the function On, instead on On/Off (and maybe also an option for Off). In this case when I send an external command the function is switched On or kept On when it is already On.

2. When you assign an external input to a button, you have an option (e.g. with a checkbox) to select that the external input switches the button Off with the 0 value and On with any other value. It can be named something like “On/Off instead of Toggle”. Or 3 external input’s: one to switch On, one to switch Off and one to Toggle.

3. A Slider widget already has the function that it can be “Switched” On and Off with the values 0 and 255 like the second solution. The disadvantage is that Slides do not apply the “Fade in” and “Fade out” time as defined in the scene to which it is assigned. This can be solved by adding a checkbox on the “Playback” tab to follow the fade times from the scene. This might also work when you add sliders to a solo frame and fades out the deselected slider smoothly. An option might be that the fade time is related to the change in fader value. For example when the fade time is set to 5 seconds and the fades is changed from 0 to 127 the fade time of 2.5 seconds is used.

I really hope that one of these is easy to implement in QLC+. And will make QLC+ even more flexible and powerful. Sorry for the long post but I have been thinking a lot about the possible solutions and like to share it with the users on this forum. If you need more information or help with testing, please let me know.

Kind regards, Onno
The Netherlands

[siegmund]

2. When you assign an external input to a button, you have an option (e.g. with a checkbox) to select that the external input switches the button Off with the 0 value and On with any other value. It can be named something like “On/Off instead of Toggle”.

I somehow like this idea, although I'm not sure if this should really be a part of the external input widget. At a first glance this should not be so hard to implement.
@massimo What dou you think about that?

[onnorvld]

Would it be possible to get an “official” reaction on my request from massimo or another developer if this can be implemented? This is for me really an important feature and I’ll think a valuable addition to QLC+ when integrated with other systems by OSC or Midi.

Thanks a lot, Onno.

[mcallegari]

Here's the official answer.
QLC+ is used in a wide variety of ways, and everyone in this forum would like QLC+ to have this and that bit implemented to cover his usage.
This is almost impossible to do, mainly for 2 reasons:
- implementing a specific behavior can break another usage case
- adding more and more options can be overwhelming for simple usage cases and new users might be discouraged to adopt QLC+ because of so many confusing options

That said, your report jumped directly to the conclusions, without first explaining exactly what's the usage case. To provide a punctual answer, I would first need to know what values your OSC controller send to QLC+.
QLC+ has been tested mainly with TouchOSC and I have already added options to cope with its strange behaviour (see "add extra signal to toggle on/off")

You said a Slider could work, so have you tried the combination of a Slider + Loopback + Button ? That might do what you need.
Something like the workspace attached

[siegmund]

Hey Massimo, thank you for jumping in!
Although I am completely with you on the first few points, I'm not sure about the provided workspace.
Since the slider toggles the button when changed, this is most probably not what the TS wants - it is nearly impossible to precisely apply a desired state to the button.
This is an issue I already ran into, too. I was not able to find a workaround so far, also changing the code to make this work is not trivial. Maybe you have a suggestion for that?

[mcallegari]

Well, if you move the slider with the mouse it obviously produces nasty results.
However, the OP seems to request actions on a button so I assumed his OSC controller sends 0-255 values only.
On a slider sending 255 many times shouldn't affect the button state, and I think this is what the OP wants

OR

more easily, maybe the flashing functionality is what he's looking for. But since he didn't specify how the OSC data is sent, I won't try to guess.

[siegmund]

Did not thought about that! You're right - let's see if it helps.

[onnorvld]

I have tried to be clear about my request, but I feel I’m have not succeeded in that. I’ll try again. With Show Cue System (SCS) I send OSC commands to a button in the virtual console, in theater. With the command “/qlc/3,i 255” I what to switch a scene (selected in the button) On, with the selected fade time. And with the command “/qlc/3,i 0” I want a fade out the scene and switch the button Off. What I can do now is send “/qlc/3,i 255” to toggle the button On and Off. This works good but in the theater I have to be sure that a scene/button is On en kept On when I resend the “/qlc/3,i 255” command because of a loop of step back in the cue list of SCS. It works with a fader widget but a fader does not have a fade in and fade out time, which is required in a theater environment.

When this is possible I can build a complete sound and light system, all connected by OSC. SCS will control the cue list and send commands to the X32 mixer and the QLC+ lightning system. I already created a YouTube to demo SCS and the X32 integration by OSC: https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=Vw0XfesNW2Q

I hope I’m more clearer now (otherwise I have to create another YouTube to demo it….). I do not think that this functionality will influence another usage cases, which, of cause should be avoid.

Thanks for all the reactions,

Onno

[mcallegari]

@Onno, thanks for the explanation. That is what I supposed. Have you tried the slider + loopback + button solution ?

[onnorvld]

@mcallegari: I'm working on loopback solution and I will post the results as soon as the tests as finishend.

[onnorvld]

I rebuild your example to be sure that I can reproduce it. This work and the faders react on the OSC commands as expected. What troubles this solution is the behavior of the faders in the solo frame.

Reading the manual: “Mix sliders in playback mode: Mix sliders in playback mode: When this option is enabled, the sliders in playback mode are allowed to be enabled at the same time. When moving a slider up, instead of instantly cancelling the other running sliders, it will fade them out at the same speed you are fading it up.” This option is not selected, I’ll expect the fades to move to 0 when another fader is raised.

But this did not happen. Sending /qlc/01,i 255 and then /qlc/02,i 255 will show Scene 01 and that fades to Scene 02. Sending /qlc/01,i 255 again does not fade back to Scene 01 because the fader “Scene 01” is still at the 255 position.

I’ll send both the QLC file and the Show Cue System file (zip). To move down a fader and use the loopback to trigger a button with OSC I had to send /qlc/01,i 1 instead of /qlc/01,i 0 in SCS

Is there a setting wrong in my QLC file?
Regards, Onno

[siegmund]

This sounds like a bug - can you reproduce the behavior in another workspace without OSC? Since I have no OSC environment at hand, I'm not able to reproduce it at the moment.

[onnorvld]

Yes, also when I manually move a fader it is not cancelling the other open fader, not only with OSC.
Can you reproduce that?

Onno

[siegmund]

Yes, but I think this is as expected since the docs only talk about sliders in playback mode. Your sliders are in level mode and these are most probably do not have the solo behavior.
So maybe try adding scenes for remote loopback.

[onnorvld]

With the help of mcallegari and siegmund I got the configuration working. I needed to add a “Black Out” to switch off a scene, because sending a zero value by OSC does not activate a button in the loopback. Now I can just repeat a scene command without disturbing the button position.

I created a complete example with both QLC+ and Show Cue System files with 3 scenes and 1 effect. The Show Cue System cue list will control the QLC+ scenes and you can jump back in the cue list at any time and QLC+ will follow. In the cue list, you I have repeated some queues to test and demonstrate that this work good.

I still hope that QLC+ will be enhanced in the future (direct button on/off OSC support for example ). Not to make it more complex but even more powerful!

Thanks once more for the help. Onno