QLC+ and Pixel Mapped LEDs

[gmint]

I recently started adding some more complex pixel mapped LED elements and while I was able to drive them from QLC+ in some regard, it became apparent to me that QLC+ really isn't well setup to handle large numbers of LEDs under the current paradigm. In part, I don't think that's really the fault of QLC+ because there's really just been a big paradigm shift when things have gone from maybe 20-30 being "a lot" of DMX channels for one fixture to the point where LED pixels need hundreds if not thousands of DMX channels. For my current project (here https://youtu.be/mkgoGL44XLQ I'm running a 12px wide by roughly 100px high array of LEDs.

While I did manage to get it somewhat up and running with QLC+ I ultimately ended up going to MadMapper (which runs the video screen to the left of the array as well as a bunch of other displays in the venue) to run the array simply because it seems to be more stable and easier to configure for this many pixels. Of course, I can (and do) still run MadMapper from QLC+, but I'm wondering what the thought is going forward for larger LED installations like this. I know a lot of people use Madrix and/or other standalone LED pixel mapping programs for this type of thing so I guess I'm wondering if the idea is that QLC+ is going to attempt to handle these types of scenarios or if that's something that will basically be left to other programs. Honestly, I can see merits both ways. LEDs are really stretching the DMX protocol IMHO and I'm not sure that it's really an area where it makes sense to do this type of thing directly in a lighting control program.

Thoughts on the future here?

[PeterD]

No one tool is ever right for every aspect of any job.

So, as a user, big supporter of, and donator to QLC+, I also use - and recommend that you look at - Xlights (http://www.nutcracker123.com/wk/).

Its Nutcracker component departs from the notion of individual fixtures with the concept of defining an element (such as a matrix) and then dropping effects (butterfly, spirals, fireworks, video, animations, text, etc.) onto it.

[gmint]

@PeterD you are correct and that's kind of why I posted this thread in the first place—I think it would be interesting to see where the development is headed in this regard. I will say that after I posted this, I did setup a fixture with about 300 pixels in QLC+ and got it working, but it did require quite a bit of work to do so. I guess I'm really just wondering what the prevailing thought is with respect to this particular software (although I'm definitely going to take a look at what you posted too!).

[mcallegari]

I'm still not sure if one the goals of QLC+ is to support very large LED matrices. As you guys mentioned, there are other softwares designed specifically with that goal in mind.
It would be cool to have projection mapping integrated, videos mapped to RGB LED panels, etc...but unfortunately the QLC+ engine has a scalability limit and even with a very powerful PC, I doubt you can control a 10000 LED panel.
For example, the QLC+ engine doesn't even scale into multicore architectures, so at some point is better to have a single 3GHz processor rather than a 1.8GHz octa core PC. I realized this a long time ago, but unfortunately a change in that direction means to rewrite half of the engine

Moreover, when you scale up to huge installations, the hardware changes as well. There are dedicated machines that accept a video stream as input, decode it, decompose every frames into subsurfaces, and finally send them to other controllers dedicated (for example) to translate raw pixels into SPI data. Doing that purely in software is no piece of cake.

So for now this is the situation. Hope it helps to understand what's under the hood a bit better.

P.S. If you wish to break your jaws, here's something I found like 3 years ago: https://itp.nyu.edu/classes/leds-sp2015 ... htclub-uk/

[gmint]

I'm still not sure if one the goals of QLC+ is to support very large LED matrices. As you guys mentioned, there are other softwares designed specifically with that goal in mind.
It would be cool to have projection mapping integrated, videos mapped to RGB LED panels, etc...but unfortunately the QLC+ engine has a scalability limit and even with a very powerful PC, I doubt you can control a 10000 LED panel.
For example, the QLC+ engine doesn't even scale into multicore architectures, so at some point is better to have a single 3GHz processor rather than a 1.8GHz octa core PC. I realized this a long time ago, but unfortunately a change in that direction means to rewrite half of the engine

Moreover, when you scale up to huge installations, the hardware changes as well. There are dedicated machines that accept a video stream as input, decode it, decompose every frames into subsurfaces, and finally send them to other controllers dedicated (for example) to translate raw pixels into SPI data. Doing that purely in software is no piece of cake.

So for now this is the situation. Hope it helps to understand what's under the hood a bit better.

P.S. If you wish to break your jaws, here's something I found like 3 years ago: https://itp.nyu.edu/classes/leds-sp2015 ... htclub-uk/

Thanks for the info Massimo, that's kind of what I was wondering. I've really been getting into some LED installations lately and I've been going back and forth between QLC+ and MadMapper (primarily because I'm also using that a lot for projection/video) and I'm still trying to get a feel for what I like best. Personally, the biggest issue I see with QLC+ at this point is really just the way in which LEDs are assigned to matrices. For example, it would definitely be nice if it were possible to setup a matrix in every direction (i.e. from the bottom up or right to left as opposed to just left to right and up to down). Other than that, it's not super difficult to set things up in QLC+ and the upside is that the RGB matrix programs make it really easy to get things up and running very quickly. MadMapper is maybe a little easier to get working, but then you really need to either make content or use yet another program to do it (although some generation functions are available in the Beta version of MadMapper, they're not as good as what is available in QLC+).

FWIW, MadMapper can control other DMX lights as well, but the setup is really quite laughable (it involves making images to control different DMX channels). I only mention that because I think it's interesting to see what areas softwares get into...

In short, I do think it's an interesting question for the future and I'll be interested to see how things evolve.

[Dingezz]

i agree, the way in which LEDs are assigned to RGB panels can use some impovenent, just a "simple?" drag n drop multiple select or " flip row" (flip a row from snake to zig-zag) would help a lot,

I am using 240 led pixels in bars of 24pixels, 5 bars a universe so spread over 4 universes. defining a one universe RGB panel is easy, making a (snake) RGB panel spread over 4 universes takes a lot of drag n droping

[gmint]

i agree, the way in which LEDs are assigned to RGB panels can use some impovenent, just a "simple?" drag n drop multiple select or " flip row" (flip a row from snake to zig-zag) would help a lot,

I am using 240 led pixels in bars of 24pixels, 5 bars a universe so spread over 4 universes. defining a one universe RGB panel is easy, making a (snake) RGB panel spread over 4 universes takes a lot of drag n droping

Yes, this is tough to do in QLC+ and could definitely use some improvement. That said, I was talking about MadMapper earlier and I feel compelled to say that it's not much easier in that software. This seems to be kind of a shortcoming in across the board. Because of that I was thinking, I don't know how practical this would be, but rather than reinvent the wheel, it might be useful to be able to import a spreadsheet file like a pixel map. Since any basic spreadsheet program is going to be way better at sorting and such, I'd much rather do that work in such an application and then just import the result into my lighting software...

[Dingezz]

i agree, the way in which LEDs are assigned to RGB panels can use some impovenent, just a "simple?" drag n drop multiple select or " flip row" (flip a row from snake to zig-zag) would help a lot,

I am using 240 led pixels in bars of 24pixels, 5 bars a universe so spread over 4 universes. defining a one universe RGB panel is easy, making a (snake) RGB panel spread over 4 universes takes a lot of drag n droping

Yes, this is tough to do in QLC+ and could definitely use some improvement. That said, I was talking about MadMapper earlier and I feel compelled to say that it's not much easier in that software. This seems to be kind of a shortcoming in across the board. Because of that I was thinking, I don't know how practical this would be, but rather than reinvent the wheel, it might be useful to be able to import a spreadsheet file like a pixel map. Since any basic spreadsheet program is going to be way better at sorting and such, I'd much rather do that work in such an application and then just import the result into my lighting software...

nice thoughts! works well i think, save it as a CSV file and you can use any spreadsheet program you like, add animated GIF and/or Mjpeg support and we're done

[Dingezz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShXJkSt67cY

this is my project btw.

[gmint]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShXJkSt67cY

this is my project btw.

That's pretty dope! Would you mind sharing some details? For example, what are the tubes?

[Dingezz]

sure! 6803 (ic) led's & and DMX converter. the tube was the most difficult part, i hate it when you see all the led "dots" done al lot of research, finally end up with 32mm diameter, 1.8mm thickness Polypropylene Tube. my other option was building it in empty Fluorescent Lighting case's because the have nice Diffusers

[gmint]

sure! 6803 (ic) led's & and DMX converter. the tube was the most difficult part, i hate it when you see all the led "dots" done al lot of research, finally end up with 32mm diameter, 1.8mm thickness Polypropylene Tube. my other option was building it in empty Fluorescent Lighting case's because the have nice Diffusers

Awesome, can I ask where you sourced the tube from? I agree with not being able to see the dots. My first thought was that they were Fluorescent light cases...

[OddSocks]

Hi can I second that question.

I have been looking for some pipe to make leaping arch type effects. Have been looking for white MDPE pipe but it is unavailable in the uk.

These are some candles that I constructed. they stand about 5 feet (1.5m) high.

[gmint]

Hi can I second that question.

I have been looking for some pipe to make leaping arch type effects. Have been looking for white MDPE pipe but it is unavailable in the uk.

These are some candles that I constructed. they stand about 5 feet (1.5m) high.

Those are really awesome, what are they made of?

[Dingezz]

http://www.beukerwebwinkel.nl/

Delivers only in the Netherlands, any shop specialized in PVC/PP should have these. an other option are LED profile's like these"http://coxo.en.alibaba.com/product/6032 ... ofile.html you can found many more on alibaba and ebay . white polycarbonate sheets are a good option if you are building a led wall, or just cover your led's with a White diffuse LEE filter

you can calculate how large the diameter of the tubing needs to be if you want a nice diffusion and do'nt want to see the led "dots" take the distance between your led's and the beam angle, where the led beams cross is the minimal diameter.

[OddSocks]

Hi,

The Candles are made from 5mm Correx sheet that I got from Ebay at £50 for 5 off, 8'x4' sheets.

There is more information on http://www.ukchristmaslights.co.uk/view ... ?f=15&t=93

At some point I will get all four set up and use a decent camera to video them.