Theatrical Cues

[Baylink]

I think what was said is - don't use cue lists in Simple Desk.
Actualy, try to avoid using Simple Desk anyway, for everything.

Sure. Except hang & focus. :-) But my interpretation of Janos' comment above was that you could only use Cue Lists inside Simple Desk -- that they were an animal of Simple Desk, rather than a first-class object. If I am mistaken there, chalk it up to I'm A Newbie. :-)

Virtual Console is a different matter.

In VC (VirtualConsole) there is a CueList widgit. This picks up its list from a chaser.

Only a Chaser function? Or any function, including, say, a Collection?

The Chaser (set up in the Functions tab) contains a list of all Functions/Scenes/Collections etc. to to be used as 'cues'. These can be 'light cues' or 'audio cues' etc.

When running a chaser, each entry has its own timing (Fade In, Fade Out,Hold, Duration), either a time or infinite, and the chaser will move from each entry to the next depending on that timing. On the CueList widget 'Infinite times' (ie holds) are controlled by the Next / Previous buttons, or the CrossFaders.
Note: If all entries are timed, once started the CueList/Chaser will run from first to last with no user intervention required.

And that's why I can't *just* put a Chaser inside; I need "fire a cue and forget it, every time I hit Go".

A collection will run all entries at the same time. The run time will be the longest timed item in the collection.

Only that?

So you could have a sound cue played at the same time as a light cue. Note: Sound Cue / Light Cue can/could be any other cue/function/chaser/collection etc.
eg Thunder and Lightning.

If you want to set up a sequence of events like a light and sound show, perhaps what you need to look at is 'Shows' :))

Perhaps. I seem to remember thinking there was something about Shows that was over-engineered for my goal.

A computer can not decide what is happening on stage. If an actor forgets lines (ooh never) or decides to adlib for comical efect ( ooh I never did) having a cue list that runs automaticaly could be disastrous. So SOME user intervention must be used. Surely?

Surely. This is my point.

I have run a pantomime with QLC, using recorded music as .wav music cues, sound effects, lights etc all under the watchful eye of one operator.
Sound that need to be coordinated with actor actions were put on buttons in Solo Frames.

In some instances, I can see wanting the FX on solo buttons, for manual triggering. In scripted drama or musical, though, they're generally going to move around in time, but vanishingly rarely will they *swap positions*, so a sequential collector of some time is the target.

I guess I'll revisit this after the weekend, when I've gotten to play a bit.

Thanks, Sir.

[Deece]

Have a look at this workspace.

I've set 4 generic RGB lamps with several scenes...
In the CueList on VC there are 3 methods doing the same thing.
Scenes, Collections and Sequences.

Also buttons and sliders showing Solo Frame and Normal.

Have a play, and enjoy.

[Baylink]

Have a look at this workspace.

I've set 4 generic RGB lamps with several scenes...
In the CueList on VC there are 3 methods doing the same thing.
Scenes, Collections and Sequences.

Ok, I loaded that, and it doesn't seem to be possible to get through the entire cuelist in sequence by only clicking one button ("Go"). Am I doing something wrong, or is it not *supposed* to be possible to do that?

[Deece]

Have a look at this workspace.

I've set 4 generic RGB lamps with several scenes...
In the CueList on VC there are 3 methods doing the same thing.
Scenes, Collections and Sequences.

Ok, I loaded that, and it doesn't seem to be possible to get through the entire cuelist in sequence by only clicking one button ("Go"). Am I doing something wrong, or is it not *supposed* to be possible to do that?

Ok, if(?) you are still with us....
First you say you want no manual intervention. Then you agree that some manual intervention is rqd...
The workspace has 3 simple examples of running the same light pattern ie red on, green on, blue on, using scenes/chasers/collections/sequences...
Each is separated by an OFF, with a hold set in the timing, ie set to infinity.
Just adjust the times to what you want! Simples.

I gave 3 examples to show how easy it is with QLC, and how flexible QLC is .

[Baylink]

First you say you want no manual intervention. Then you agree that some manual intervention is rqd...

When did I say I wanted no manual intervention? :-)

The workspace has 3 simple examples of running the same light pattern ie red on, green on, blue on, using scenes/chasers/collections/sequences...
Each is separated by an OFF, with a hold set in the timing, ie set to infinity.
Just adjust the times to what you want! Simples.

I gave 3 examples to show how easy it is with QLC, and how flexible QLC is .

Right. Ok. Thanks.

[Freddy_H]

Hello,

I'm also fairly new to QLC+, last month I ran my first theatre production with QLC+ controlling both sound & light, and I may say it worked flawlessly !

This approach worked for me:

Step 1: check lighting fixtures

Make sure the lighting fixtures you're going to use are already defined in QLC+ (a lot are already), for those that are not, work out if you can use generic definitions or you need to create new ones (and share them with the community, by preference).

Step 2: define 'basic' functions

Define scene functions for each ligting scene and audio functions for each audio file you require for your production. As mentioned before (by tornel) it can be useful to include a 'blackout' scene function and a 'silence' audio function.

Step 3: define sequence lists (functions)

Define chaser functions (one for light, one for audio) that reflect te sequence of your 'basic' functions in correspondence to your roadbook (or whatever you use to follow the play). Apply fade in/out & duration according to your needs.
It is my personal experience that most lighting steps will have infinite duration (to allow 'manual' triggering of the next lighting scene), audio steps usually have a fixed duration, but I separate them by an infinite 'silence' step (also for manually triggering the next audio file). If necessary playing audio can be 'cut' on actor action by moving to the next (silence) step.

Step 4: build operator interface

Use the Virtual Console to build your operator interface, I found it useful to have 3 dedicated areas in it:

• 'Standard mode'
  This is the main interface when the show is running 'by the book'. I defined 2 cue lists, one for sound, one for light, referencing to the according chaser function. The 'next cue' action is assigned to the keyboard ('S' for next sound cue, 'L' for next light cue). All the operator needs to do is push 'S' or 'L' on the appropriate timing.
  
  'Emergency mode'
  For when things on stage really get 'messed up', so that the normal sound/light sequences can no longer be followed, I added 2 solo frames (again, one for sound, one for light) containing buttons that are linked to the basic functions. In this mode, the operator needs to push the corresponding button to activate a given function, due to the 'solo' frame, any previously active function inside the same frame will be stopped first.
  
  'Pre-show lighting mode'
  
  I also added a slider matrix, allowing to individually control each fixture, this to allow pre-show fixture testing and/or give some backstage ligt. Just make sure all sliders are set to 0 before starting the show.

In order to make things even more 'foolproof', when doing a show I start QLC+ in Kiosk mode (see command-line parameters), so that only thing available is the Virtual Console in operate mode (no editing possible).

Of corse, there have been some issues (see my earlier postings in this forum), but no showstoppers ...

Hope this helps ....

[Baylink]

Ok, Freddy; yeah, that looks like it will help some.

A couple questions:

If the duration on the Chaser is infinite, how do you get Lights 1 to fade out when Lights 2 is fading in? Or are the Scene cues LTP-Complete, and 0s in the second cue override levels in the first one?

On the Audio side, will it skip that silence cue automagically if it plays off the end of the 'real' sound cue? Or will I have to remember to 'play' the silence cue every time to get it out of my way? Cause that's already a point where Qlab drives me up a wall: in some circumstances, you have to do something extra to get to the next cue, when you shouldn't have to.

I'll be spending some time on this this afternoon -- my interface arrived Wednesday, but my very own personal fixture (a $60 chinese-special RGBA from Amazon :-) doesn't get here until today, and I'll combine your thoughts and Deece's sample workspace.

Thanks for the help.

[mcallegari]

Naming was created by Heikki Junnila, the author of original QLC (predecessor to QLC+) 10+ years ago...
It's too late to change it now.

Nonsense. That's what major revision bumps are for.

@baylink: please try to moderate your tones here, and have some respect for the people dedicating their time to this project. For free.
You are not the one who decides what has to be changed in this software and if your intention is to turn QLC+ into Qlab, then you are in the wrong place.
Every software has its own terminology. Sometimes words mean the same thing, sometimes they don't. Hundreds of users adapted to this, so please try to do the same and spare us from your poor comments.

[Baylink]

Naming was created by Heikki Junnila, the author of original QLC (predecessor to QLC+) 10+ years ago...
It's too late to change it now.

Nonsense. That's what major revision bumps are for. :-)

@baylink: please try to moderate your tones here, and have some respect for the people dedicating their time to this project. For free.
You are not the one who decides what has to be changed in this software and if your intention is to turn QLC+ into Qlab, then you are in the wrong place.
Every software has its own terminology. Sometimes words mean the same thing, sometimes they don't. Hundreds of users adapted to this, so please try to do the same and spare us from your poor comments.

Ok. I'm gone. Y'all have a nice life.

Every *industry* has its own terminology, and practices. If you want to work within that industry, that's what you do.

You aren't interested in that, that's fine; nobody said you had to want to be a theatrical lighting package. But you *aren't*, and, for my purposes, that means you're not going to do me any good -- I 'm not going to put the energy into trying to figure out how to bash it into doing what I need.

I don't by any means claim to be the easiest guy to listen to. But it seems to have proven productive to lost of clients and projects over 35 years. Sorry you won't be one of them.

[mcallegari]

QLC+ does many things, and it's not meant to be specifically a dedicated "theatrical lighting package". We have quite a few users using it in theatres and that are happy with it.
We are also aware that there is still a lot more work to be done, not only for theatres, but also for DJs, live controls, etc..
Our spare time is what it is, and we don't do miracles.
However, being humble and polite in this forum can help to encourage us to prioritize certain topics.
Most likely hostile and sharp comments are ignored. At least this is how it works for me.
Jano tried to help you and your "35 years long proven productivity" shut him off. You should apologize to him, instead of trying to give us another of your lessons.

[Baylink]

Most likely hostile and sharp comments are ignored. At least this is how it works for me.

But you don't ignore them. You overreact to them. And, from what I can see, misinterpret as them things which are *not* hostile; they're just either from a different cultural milieu than yours, or worse, bad translations through English from someone else whose native language is not English, as I assume yours also is not.

"Senseless", for example, which started this.

As with the Spanish use of "doubt" to mean question and the German use of "Since a month", with no "ago" -- both of which confuse native English speakers, I rather strongly suspect the gent you went off on, in the very first thread I read here, had no inclination to be insulting to you or your project, and yet you were springloaded to the pissed off position.

That's not good.

Jano tried to help you and your "35 years long proven productivity" shut him off. You should apologize to him, instead of trying to give us another of your lessons.

That was a "conversation". That wasn't "sniping", as you seem to believe.

But whatever.

[Baylink]

Jano tried to help you and your "35 years long proven productivity" shut him off. You should apologize to him, instead of trying to give us another of your lessons.

And, for the record, I have just now gone back and re-read the entire first part of the thread, between Janos and I, and I see *nothing at all* that fits this description.

Except perhaps "nonsense", and I stand by "nonsense"; there really isn't anything except inertia forbidding the renaming of components -- especially at a major-version break; that's almost exactly what they're for. But that word couldn't even remotely be construed as an attack on Janos, and I'm relatively sure he knows that.

[Deece]

Baylink...

I now understand your question. I assumed that by asking to run a chaser from start to end, 'press and go', you meant for it to run without intervention.
What I now think you mean is that each step in a cue list runs independently. eg Step 2 does not react with step 1, step 3 does not react to step 2 etc.
So that each step, once triggered, runs and completes its assignment.

Currently, in a QLC cuelist, each step will cancel the previous step.

What I think you require is Loopback. I am not up to speed on Loopback as yet. (Note to devs: Can we have a tutorial on Loopback pls? )
With this you would have a master cuelist, and sub cuelists for each independent scene/function.

The Master would trigger the relevent sub cuelist next/prev button as required.
There is a post somewhere on how to do this.

Hope this helps. (a bit more...)

[Baylink]

I now understand your question. I assumed that by asking to run a chaser from start to end, 'press and go', you meant for it to run without intervention. What I now think you mean is that each step in a cue list runs independently. eg Step 2 does not react with step 1, step 3 does not react to step 2 etc. So that each step, once triggered, runs and completes its assignment.

Correct; that was what I meant. An ordered list of 'cues' (generally "scenes", or "looks", of a group of fixtures at specific levels), where whichever one is "next" is started when you hit a Go button, and it runs to completion, *hopefully* independently of anything else you do.

Optimally, you'd like that to be independent *of other cues in the list as well*, but whether you can get that depends on the 'class' of theatrical lightboard you're using. Cheaper ones are usually HTP, and you fade from entire scenes to other entire scenes. Higher-end ones are usually LTP, and a cue can include just one fixture and be run completely independently of whatever might already be moving.

The reason we were talking past one another is likely because, my coming out of a theatrical board background, those are the only approaches I'm familiar with, since they're the only ones I've seen on boards specialized to do the thing I'm trying to do.

Currently, in a QLC cuelist, each step will cancel the previous step.

So I have begun to gather.

What I think you require is Loopback. I am not up to speed on Loopback as yet. (Note to devs: Can we have a tutorial on Loopback pls? :) ) With this you would have a master cuelist, and sub cuelists for each independent scene/function.

The Master would trigger the relevent sub cuelist next/prev button as required.
There is a post somewhere on how to do this.

I'll look around, but that solution amounts to "this is way too complicated for random operators to use; you have to want to be married to QLC to get it done that way". I would prefer to avoid solutions in that class, but I'm not sure there are any solutions *not* in that class.

I might still find out.

[plugz]

Hi,

Note to devs: Can we have a tutorial on Loopback pls?

Sure, you can even help us by writing it, here are some examples of loopback usage:

http://qlcplus.org/forum/viewtopic.php? ... ack#p43054
http://qlcplus.org/forum/viewtopic.php? ... ack#p43023
http://qlcplus.org/forum/viewtopic.php? ... ack#p41766

They should help you understand how it works and what you can do with it.

I'll look around, but that solution amounts to "this is way too complicated for random operators to use; you have to want to be married to QLC to get it done that way". I would prefer to avoid solutions in that class, but I'm not sure there are any solutions *not* in that class.

You'll have to either adapt your workflow, or go with the complicated solution (that is not so complicated)

[Deece]

Sure, you can even help us by writing it,

lol
I'll have a look but I can't do video though.
( I'm an actor/director/technician - not an author. )

Thanks for the links, btw, they will be helpfull.