Theatrical Cues

[Baylink]

I've got an DMXking ultraDMX Micro in hand, and I'll be prepping for a new play in about 3 weeks. I probably won't run this show on QLC, since it's my first time out, but I'd like to aim in that direction.

The documentation presently available, though, is very Reference Manual, and -- so I don't have to bang my head too hard against the wall -- I figured I would throw some spaghetti up there first, and see if it sticks.

If I've read correctly the parts that I have looked at, it looks like I can use Q+ not only to fire my DMX lighting cues, but also to play my sound/effects cues from the same cue sheet.

Assuming that's true, and so as not to lock myself into what appear to be the limitations of Simple Desk, it looks like I will want to build a Cue List of objects... which might (for convenience of later editing) *all* be Collections, or some might be Collections and others Scenes or Chasers or Sequences (for lights) or Audio (for fx and music cues). I'd be inclined, having had to edit shows before, to make them all Collections, even if many only contain one Function.

Does this sound like a good starting point for setting up a theatre show, to anyone who's used Q+ for that purpose?

[janosvitok]

If you mix light and sound in one collection, they both will last the same time. I.e. if you switch to another light cue, the sound will be cut.
This is just a warning, so you can plan your cues accordingly.

Note that I don't use audio myself so in reality things may be different.

[Baylink]

The time attribute would live on the function (Scene, Audio, whatever), not on the Collection, correct? So even if they all start at the same time, each will end when it ends...

Or are you saying that I cannot fire the next item in the Cue Sheet until the previous one completes?

[janosvitok]

When you put functions -- scene (in QLC+ speak, = "cue" in other consoles), audio, etc. in a collection, they appear as one function with one common timing.
When you put the collections in a chaser (=cue list in other consoles) it starts and stops collections, not the functions within them.
When you start next item in chaser ("next cue") the previous will be stopped even if it didn't finish yet.
Sure you can start next cue before the previous stopped.

It also depends how do you plan to do the timing - if you set all to infinity and will advance manually, or if you want to preset some timings.

[Baylink]

> When you start next item in chaser ("next cue") the previous will be stopped even if it didn't finish yet.

Oh. Bother. There's no way around that?

How would one do "This light starts fading up halfway into the previous light's 10-second fadeout"?

[janosvitok]

Well, fade out is not counted
I.e. fade out happens AFTER the scene is stopped.

Timing in QLC+ is:

Code: Select all

            ____/````````\____
      ____/     |        |     \_____
 ___/           |        |            \______
    |<-fade in->|<-hold->|<-fade out->|
    |<-----duration----->|
     scene stopped here->|
                         |<-next cue starts

[Baylink]

Ok, an alternative "thing I want that you say I can't have":

Cue one is a 30 second fadeup.

Cue two is a 10 second fadeup which must be triggered manually on an actor move -- and will happen *during* that 30 second fadeup.

Cue two will stop cue one?

[janosvitok]

If they are in one chaser then yes, cue 2 will stop cue 1.
If they are on separate buttons/faders then not.

[Baylink]

If you look back at my original posting, though, you will see that I said a cuelist on the outside, with a bunch of collections inside it each containing a scene or a chaser. Have I misunderstood the architecture?

It sounds like you thought I was going to put the individual cues inside a single chaser.

[janosvitok]

What other consoles call "Cue list" is called "chaser" in QLC+. http://qlcplus.org/docs/concept.html#Chaser
"Cue list" in QLC+ is part of Simple Desk that you most propably don't want to use for anything serious.

I suggest you try to build something yourself first I don't want to scare you

[Baylink]

What other consoles call "Cue list" is called "chaser" in QLC+. http://qlcplus.org/docs/concept.html#Chaser
"Cue list" in QLC+ is part of Simple Desk that you most propably don't want to use for anything serious.

Oh. <sigh>

Yeah; the documentation needs help. :-)

It sounds, at the moment, as if there's no way at all to do the thing I want to do. That would be bad, over and above my inability to figure that out. Nothing is asynchronous, then?

(PS: if you have to give people analogies for your names all the time; you've picked the wrong names. :-)

[Baylink]

What other consoles call "Cue list" is called "chaser" in QLC+. http://qlcplus.org/docs/concept.html#Chaser
"Cue list" in QLC+ is part of Simple Desk that you most propably don't want to use for anything serious.)

Unless I've misread that, no, that's not what a Chaser is: a Chaser *runs all its components in sequence automatically*.

A cue sheet has a "Go" button, which runs whatever's next in sequence, and then waits.

[janosvitok]

Naming was created by Heikki Junnila, the author of original QLC (predecessor to QLC+) 10+ years ago...
It's too late to change it now.

[Baylink]

Naming was created by Heikki Junnila, the author of original QLC (predecessor to QLC+) 10+ years ago...
It's too late to change it now.

Nonsense. That's what major revision bumps are for. :-)

[Baylink]

(And, just for the record, being able to play sound cues as well may be a red herring; I'm trying to get overlapped light cues if possible, and I'm perfectly happy to put sound on Qlab on its own machine...)

[tornel]

There are multiple ways to achieve things in QLC+,

In your case (as is in mine, as I work with theater mostly) I have found two ways that work for my workflow.

1. Two Solo frames: one for sound and one for light. Optionally with the script so I can follow. This is especially useful when I don't know the play well (sometimes there are not many rehearsals at the venue where I work).

2. Two Cue Lists: one for light and one for sound. I map consecutive keyboard keys to "Next" (i.e. "1" and "2" or "z" and "x") so I can trigger easily when the light and sound must be triggered at the same time. In this case I have a silent file audio and use it when I have to stop a sound cue at a specific moment. The same goes to light cues, I program a Black Out Scene and use it when appropriate instead of stopping the Cue List.

There may be other ways to achieve what you intend

I'm attaching a sample workspace demonstrating both ways.
Disclaimer: In this workspace the sound cues are normal cues so I don't have to attach any sound file.

As for overlapping light cues that's what buttons are for. A combination of Solo frames and normal buttons can make wonders

[tornel]

here is the attachment

[Baylink]

I'll take a look at that, Tornel, and thanks, but my goal when running a show is to have one, or at most two, buttons I need to hit:

Lights Go

Sound Go

It sounds like you're suggesting using it as a Sound Panel (or the lighting equivalent), and having to make sure a mouse is over the proper button (or my finger is on the right one on a hardware controller) is a bit more stress than I want to volunteer for in the booth -- I did it that way for the first couple shows, and moved to Qlab as soon as I could. We *have* computers so they can do the thinking.

I don't know where, precisely, we are in the 5.x design cycle; hopefully not too late.

It would be nice to see a clean, polished cuesheet implementation suitable for scripted performances, rather than having to cobble one up (and I swear, if I catch shit for that phrasing, I am *gone*).

[Baylink]

Wait. Sorry, I was apparently too distracted this afternoon at work.

I thought somebody upthread said that I didn't want to use Cue-Lists...?

[Deece]

I think what was said is - don't use cue lists in Simple Desk.
Actualy, try to avoid using Simple Desk anyway, for everything.

Virtual Console is a different matter.

In VC (VirtualConsole) there is a CueList widgit. This picks up its list from a chaser.
The Chaser (set up in the Functions tab) contains a list of all Functions/Scenes/Collections etc. to to be used as 'cues'.
These can be 'light cues' or 'audio cues' etc.

When running a chaser, each entry has its own timing (Fade In, Fade Out,Hold, Duration), either a time or infinite, and the chaser will move from each entry to the next depending on that timing. On the CueList widget 'Infinite times' (ie holds) are controlled by the Next / Previous buttons, or the CrossFaders.
Note: If all entries are timed, once started the CueList/Chaser will run from first to last with no user intervention required.

A collection will run all entries at the same time. The run time will be the longest timed item in the collection.
So you could have a sound cue played at the same time as a light cue. Note: Sound Cue / Light Cue can/could be any other cue/function/chaser/collection etc.
eg Thunder and Lightning.

If you want to set up a sequence of events like a light and sound show, perhaps what you need to look at is 'Shows' )

A computer can not decide what is happening on stage. If an actor forgets lines (ooh never) or decides to adlib for comical efect ( ooh I never did) having a cue list that runs automaticaly could be disastrous. So SOME user intervention must be used. Surely?

I have run a pantomime with QLC, using recorded music as .wav music cues, sound effects, lights etc all under the watchful eye of one operator.
Sound that need to be coordinated with actor actions were put on buttons in Solo Frames.

Wow, a long post sory. Hope it helps. A bit...