Faders vs Scenes priority

[kevin_ross100]

Hi,

I have a virtual console setup where I have a number of scenes that set my lights to set patterns. I then have a number of faders that I can override those settings with to manually control the lights. This used to work fine in older versions but since upgrading the scene buttons do not override the fader values.

I have attached a simplified workspace that highlights the problem https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-uqVJ ... sp=sharing

Thanks

[giacomo]

I've tried your show and I believe that there is an issue when LTP sliders are added to a solo frame - but it happens in general - because they take control over other functions, maybe you can try to change fixture channels to HTP mode.
it would be nice an answer from the developers, I've not understood what "mix sliders in pb mode" does.
I wonder if LTP channels should stay on when the function is released (same for the sliders), personally I'd expect that all the channels jump to their defaults values.
regards

[plugz]

it would be nice an answer from the developers, I've not understood what "mix sliders in pb mode" does.

http://qlcplus.org/docs/vcsoloframe.html

"When this option is enabled, the sliders in playback mode are allowed to be enabled at the same time. When moving a slider up, instead of instantly cancelling the other running sliders, it will fade them out at the same speed you are fading it up."

I made a gif showing how it works but I can't find it.

I wonder if LTP channels should stay on when the function is released (same for the sliders), personally I'd expect that all the channels jump to their defaults values.

What's the "default value" of a channel ?

[plugz]

I have a virtual console setup where I have a number of scenes that set my lights to set patterns. I then have a number of faders that I can override those settings with to manually control the lights. This used to work fine in older versions but since upgrading the scene buttons do not override the fader values.

I have just tested your workspace, and I don't understand what you want to happen.
Please explain step by step.

[giacomo]

great Plugz, thanks for the reply,

1

When this option is enabled, the sliders in playback mode are allowed to be enabled at the same time

I've read the manual but when I try it, like the file TestPriority2, I can't see any difference between switching on/off this option: the faders are always working all together and together with other functions.

2

What's the "default value" of a channel ?

usually the default value is determined by the fixture library.
In our case I could ask this question: if a scene has a LED "red", is it correct that when I disable this function the LED remains "red"?
I can understand the logic behind it, as if we are in a "tracking mode" system, personally I'd expect a more intuitive relation: when a function is disabled it stops to send values too (TestPriority3 without sliders).

3
Please try the TestPriority2 and you'll see that all the buttons aren't working because of the sliders (as they're in TestPriority3 without them), every slider affects the scene buttons and not only the ones in the solo frame.

I'm really curious to understand if I'm mistaking something, again thanks.

[kevin_ross100]

After much version installing I have narrowed it down to when this changed. If you open the project in 4.8.4 then it works fine. By that I mean the following

You click on the scene button at the values snap to the values in the scene (good)
You drag a fader and the values change to match the fader (good)

In 4.8.5 this happens

You click on the scene button and the values snap to the values in the scene (good)
You drag a fader and nothing happens (bad)

This continues until 4.10.0 when this happens

You click on the scene button and nothing happens (bad)
You drag a fader and the value changes to match the fader (good)

The way I used to have the lights was a series of 8 "Preset" scenes that I had in a solo frame. I would use these to set the basic lighting, I could then go and tweak that base with the faders. Like I said this works fine in 4.8.4 but since then things have changed

[plugz]

I've read the manual but when I try it, like the file TestPriority2, I can't see any difference between switching on/off this option: the faders are always working all together and together with other functions.

"in playback mode" applies to the FADER.

Your faders are in LEVEL mode, not in PLAYBACK mode.

A fader in PLAYBACK mode is a fader which has a function attached to it.
A fader in LEVEL mode is linked to channels directly.

usually the default value is determined by the fixture library.

Well, not in our case..

In our case I could ask this question: if a scene has a LED "red", is it correct that when I disable this function the LED remains "red"?

If you changed the red channel of the LED to LTP, then yes. The LAST thing that touched this channel said "do red light", and then nothing happened. So an LTP channel will stay in "do red light" mode.

Please try the TestPriority2 and you'll see that all the buttons aren't working because of the sliders (as they're in TestPriority3 without them), every slider affects the scene buttons and not only the ones in the solo frame.

No.
You sliders DO NOT affect the SCENE BUTTONS.
Your sliders affect CHANNELS directly.
They have no effect on the SCENES.

[plugz]

After much version installing I have narrowed it down to when this changed. If you open the project in 4.8.4 then it works fine. By that I mean the following

You click on the scene button at the values snap to the values in the scene (good)
You drag a fader and the values change to match the fader (good)

In 4.8.5 this happens

You click on the scene button and the values snap to the values in the scene (good)
You drag a fader and nothing happens (bad)

This continues until 4.10.0 when this happens

You click on the scene button and nothing happens (bad)
You drag a fader and the value changes to match the fader (good)

The way I used to have the lights was a series of 8 "Preset" scenes that I had in a solo frame. I would use these to set the basic lighting, I could then go and tweak that base with the faders. Like I said this works fine in 4.8.4 but since then things have changed

OK thanks for the details

With 4.10.1, I don't see the same behavior.
What I see is:
- click on the scene button: values snap to the scene values.
- drag a fader: as long as the fader is moved, the values go to the ones selected by the fader. Once the fader is released, the values go back to the ones from the scene.

I have a solution for this, but if we don't see the same things, I don't know how I can help you

[mcallegari]

I made a gif showing how it works but I can't find it.

http://www.qlcplus.org/release-4.10.0.html
See "Solo Frame sliders mixing"

[kevin_ross100]

Hi,

I have uploaded a video to show the changes in behavior between 4.8.4, 4.8.5 and 4.10.1 the machine is running Windows 10 64bit

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-uqVJ ... sp=sharing

I'm also a developer (windows stack:-)) so hate it when user's post vague error reports with no steps to reproduce! Hopefully this will be enough but if you want me to do anything else then let me know

[giacomo]

thanks everybody for the explanations, I was sure I was mistaking something and it's important to know your ideas about ltp channels etc.

to support Kevin, I'm on linux with 4.10.1 and I've I've the same behavior reported by him - the scene button doesn't do anything - but after your explanations I guess it's correct because the sliders are in channel mode. (curious that Plugz has it different)

[plugz]

http://www.qlcplus.org/release-4.10.0.html
See "Solo Frame sliders mixing"

Thanks

Hi,

I have uploaded a video to show the changes in behavior between 4.8.4, 4.8.5 and 4.10.1 the machine is running Windows 10 64bit

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-uqVJ ... sp=sharing

I'm also a developer (windows stack:-)) so hate it when user's post vague error reports with no steps to reproduce! Hopefully this will be enough but if you want me to do anything else then let me know

Thanks but this is a link to the workspace file

to support Kevin, I'm on linux with 4.10.1 and I've I've the same behavior reported by him - the scene button doesn't do anything - but after your explanations I guess it's correct because the sliders are in channel mode. (curious that Plugz has it different)

What do you mean by "nothing happens" ?

Here's what happens when I test the button on the latest version:

[kevin_ross100]

Sorry my bad, here is the link to the video

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-uqVJ ... sp=sharing

[giacomo]

What do you mean by "nothing happens" ?

move the faders and then push the button many times, on my pc nothing happens but the faders have the control:
like I said in my first reply, when the faders are in channel mode they keep always control over the LTP channels, inside a solo frame or not, so the test scene of Kevin can't change these parameters.
-If I'm right- It's important to know it because now the LTP rule is overwritten by faders in channel mode.
-If I'm wrong- sorry.

[plugz]

OK thanks for the video I see what happens now.
The behavior is not the same for me so I really don't know what to do. I'll try with 4.10.1 though, because I tested with the latest sources.

EDIT- even with 4.10.1, I don't have the same behavior as you. I don't understand

[mcallegari]

The behavior is not the same for me so I really don't know what to do. I'll try with 4.10.1 though, because I tested with the latest sources.

Since 4.10.1 there's been these 2 changes but I'm not sure if they're the ones changing the behaviour you're seeing
https://github.com/mcallegari/qlcplus/c ... fd839e1622
https://github.com/mcallegari/qlcplus/c ... b92316b904

[giacomo]

maybe someone can test this file?
and please report if the result it's like mine, at this point it's important to understand if just me and Kevin have this behavior,
the next week I'll have a new little production and I'm going to use qlcplus.

- one group of sliders are in playback mode with copy of the scenes;
- one group of sliders are in channel mode;

when I try this show only the second groups of sliders -channel mode- can change the output:
if I disable the sliders in -channel mode- I still can't control the output with the other buttons/sliders;
if I delete the sliders in -channel mode- everything works as expected.

I don't have real fixtures, just watching the monitor.
linux, qlcplus 4.10.1
thanks

[siegmund]

when I try this show only the second groups of sliders -channel mode- can change the output:
if I disable the sliders in -channel mode- I still can't control the output with the other buttons/sliders;

Exactly the same to me with your file.

if I delete the sliders in -channel mode- everything works as expected.

I would'nt call this "as expected": Once deleted the sliders in -channel mode- I move a scene fader and the color channel goes instantly to 255. When moving another fader, the first one moves instantly to 0 and the other to 255. Similar the scene buttons only activate the channel, which was clicked last: Click red, R->255, Click green (red is still active) R->0, G->255 and so on. What is going on here?

Tested on
4.10.1 on Ubuntu 14.04

[giacomo]

thanks siegmund,
each scene has the other colors enabled at 0, otherwise with the actual LPT rule the fixtures values would be just fixed at 255 after 3 button/fader selections.
About the fade I guess that it's the right behavior: the fixture is set with the channels in LTP mode and with "can fade" selected, but as I understood it works only for fade times.

to Plugz,
I understand your LTP principle but we should consider first a real situation and it makes things much more complicates: if one has to improvise fast with LPT channels, actually with qlcplus he has to know in advance all the show before programming few simple steps.
eg. try to do something with this simple file of just 3 colors, each scene just controls 1 attribute, it's impossible.
I had to add a 0_levels scene (but then we should have 3 of them for each channel - and if we multiply this for few fixtures and few other parameters it becomes too confusing).
Personally I think that channels should follow the LTP rules within only the active functions, that when the last controlling function is disabled the fixture parameter should default to 0 (in qlcplus because we don't have default definitions, anyway usually 0 values are good), one can always program and activate a "custom default scene" in the case he needs it.

[kevin_ross100]

Just to say I have tried it with the latest test build (20151028) and the behaviour is the same as 4.10.1 release.