Hi everyone,
As a newly converted enthusiast for Sequences, I would firstly like to draw attention to some limitations in the usefulness of sequences and suggest some improvements.
Show Manager
a) When a sequence is deleted from a track, it cannot be recovered later, although it is still shown and can be tested in the function manager.
b) Although sequences can be created in the Function Manager, they cannot subsequently be added to a Show track. (In fact, is there anyway of replaying these Sequences other with the test facility in the Sequence Editor?)
c) The new sequence button should, if possible, open a list which includes all the Sequences bound to the current Scene, plus the option of creating a new Sequence.
d) The graphical representation on the Show track does not change as it should when the fade in / out / hold times are changed if they are set to “common”.
Sequences as Functions
e) It's rather a pity that a Sequence can't be attached directly to a button or Chaser step or included in a Collection, although setting up Show tracks and the attaching Shows to buttons or Chaser steps or including them in Collections is not a lot of extra work.
An important advantages of direct attachment would be that users could very easily discover what a time saver the Sequence Editor can be without having to learn to use the Show Manager. (This does not mean to imply that Shows are anything but a very valuable part of qlc+.)
f) I think the fade out time of a sequence step should follow its own fade out time as set, not the fade in time of the next step as at present. (Also applies to chaser steps)
Secondly, some issues with the documentation for Sequences and Shows:
Explanations missing from the documentation
For Sequences:
1) When a new step is created, it is inserted after the highlighted step as a copy of that step.
2) You need to click on the new step to highlight it in order to edit it. (It would probably be better if the new step were automatically highlighted when it was created.)
3) You need to click away from all the steps in the sequence so that none are highlighted before testing the sequence because otherwise the highlighted step remains on (i.e. its values are sent to DMX output) throughout the test.
4) Double click on an item to enter a new value or to add a note. (This is not documented in the chaser editor either.)
For the Show Editor:
5) The Show Editor is opened in the Functions Manager by clicking on the name of a Show. (It's not obvious where to find it!)
Terminology
It's probably too late to change anything now, but I would have instinctively named the Sequence a “chase” and the Chaser a “(cue) stack” - but maybe American usage is different.
It may possibly have helped to avoid the misunderstandings that have previously arisen regarding attaching a chaser to a cue list to control the all the lighting for a theatrical production.
Sequences and Shows – some observations and suggestions
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Massimo Callegari
Hi Michael, it will take some time to process all your comments, but I agree with most of them.
Quick comments that I can give right now:
a) basically this is written in bold in the documentation, beside the "delete" icon
b) this is related to a) but I agree with you. It should be possible to add an existing Sequence to a track
c) this is related to b). I would say when you click on the "new track" icon, it should display the list of Scenes + the Sequences children. In this way you'd have 3 results: a new scene, an existing scene or an existing sequence
d) very probable. I need to check it and fix it
e) this should already be possible. When you are asked to select a function, if Scenes are enabled, the children Sequences are displayed too. If you select one of them you should be able to associate it to a button
f) this should be working already. The only thing is that fade out happens outside a step, so the graphical representation might lead to a misunderstanding. Please double check this one
I'll improve the documentation with your comments.
Thanks
Quick comments that I can give right now:
a) basically this is written in bold in the documentation, beside the "delete" icon
b) this is related to a) but I agree with you. It should be possible to add an existing Sequence to a track
c) this is related to b). I would say when you click on the "new track" icon, it should display the list of Scenes + the Sequences children. In this way you'd have 3 results: a new scene, an existing scene or an existing sequence
d) very probable. I need to check it and fix it
e) this should already be possible. When you are asked to select a function, if Scenes are enabled, the children Sequences are displayed too. If you select one of them you should be able to associate it to a button
f) this should be working already. The only thing is that fade out happens outside a step, so the graphical representation might lead to a misunderstanding. Please double check this one
I'll improve the documentation with your comments.
Thanks
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Michael Clements
Hi Massimo,
Thanks for your reply.
I've done some more checking of the fade in / out behaviour with unequal timings.
A crossfade with unequal timings won't be a frequently used feature but it's needed typically in situations where the focus of attention shifts from one part of the stage to another in a drama or musical. Examples are that a slow lingering fade on the previous action allows a faster fade on the next to grab the audience's full attention while a fast fade on the previous followed by a slow fade in on the next builds tension when something unexpected is about to happen.
The problem seems to be that a channel whose values are reducing is following either the fade in or fade out time depending on which is longer.
There is also an anomaly when, in a crossfade of 10 s out and 3 s in, channels take 10 s to go to zero but about 5 s to go from 200 to 100.
I think the following simple scheme will work in most cases. If something more complicated is ever wanted one could resort to multiple Scenes in Collections.
1) Any intensity channel whose values are reduced by the crossfade follows the fade out time (i.e. arrives at its new value in however many seconds are set)
2) Any intensity channel whose values are increased by the crossfade follows the fade in time.
3) LTP channels follow the fade in time and remain unaltered in a fade out (as now).
An LTP refinement:
Many fixtures now have channels in which various effects are set. Changing the values of these channels slowly in a crossfade often produces unwanted results.
Although one can put these LTP channels in a separate Scene with zero fade in time and then set up a Collection to combine this Scene with a Scene that changes the intensity values more slowly, a more elegant and faster way get the required results would be to have an option in the Fixture Editor to set an LTP channel to ignore fade in times and assume its new value instantly.
Wait times (again!):
Putting the 2 Scenes to be crossfaded in a Show then adjusting the timings of 2 one step Sequences is a work around equivalent to inserting a wait time before the fade in or fade out of one of the Scenes.
Unfortunately, one then has to put a 2 step Chaser in a Collection with the Show. The first step is a blackout, the second step, with infinite hold time, kicks in with the second Scene after it has been faded in by one of the Sequences so that it doesn't fade out when the Sequence ends. Adding wait times to the scene timings would be so much easier . . . . . .
Sequence timings anomaly:
While looking at this, I noted that an infinite fade in / fade out / hold time can be set for a Sequence step (which are, unsurprisingly, ignored when it is replayed and also cause the replay not to work properly). These options need to be greyed out.
Thanks for your reply.
I've done some more checking of the fade in / out behaviour with unequal timings.
A crossfade with unequal timings won't be a frequently used feature but it's needed typically in situations where the focus of attention shifts from one part of the stage to another in a drama or musical. Examples are that a slow lingering fade on the previous action allows a faster fade on the next to grab the audience's full attention while a fast fade on the previous followed by a slow fade in on the next builds tension when something unexpected is about to happen.
The problem seems to be that a channel whose values are reducing is following either the fade in or fade out time depending on which is longer.
There is also an anomaly when, in a crossfade of 10 s out and 3 s in, channels take 10 s to go to zero but about 5 s to go from 200 to 100.
I think the following simple scheme will work in most cases. If something more complicated is ever wanted one could resort to multiple Scenes in Collections.
1) Any intensity channel whose values are reduced by the crossfade follows the fade out time (i.e. arrives at its new value in however many seconds are set)
2) Any intensity channel whose values are increased by the crossfade follows the fade in time.
3) LTP channels follow the fade in time and remain unaltered in a fade out (as now).
An LTP refinement:
Many fixtures now have channels in which various effects are set. Changing the values of these channels slowly in a crossfade often produces unwanted results.
Although one can put these LTP channels in a separate Scene with zero fade in time and then set up a Collection to combine this Scene with a Scene that changes the intensity values more slowly, a more elegant and faster way get the required results would be to have an option in the Fixture Editor to set an LTP channel to ignore fade in times and assume its new value instantly.
Wait times (again!):
Putting the 2 Scenes to be crossfaded in a Show then adjusting the timings of 2 one step Sequences is a work around equivalent to inserting a wait time before the fade in or fade out of one of the Scenes.
Unfortunately, one then has to put a 2 step Chaser in a Collection with the Show. The first step is a blackout, the second step, with infinite hold time, kicks in with the second Scene after it has been faded in by one of the Sequences so that it doesn't fade out when the Sequence ends. Adding wait times to the scene timings would be so much easier . . . . . .
Sequence timings anomaly:
While looking at this, I noted that an infinite fade in / fade out / hold time can be set for a Sequence step (which are, unsurprisingly, ignored when it is replayed and also cause the replay not to work properly). These options need to be greyed out.
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Massimo Callegari
b, c and d implemented
2) is implemented as well, in the sense that now when you click on a Sequence the step you clicked is highlighted and selected in the chaser editor
I've also updated the documentation. Please check this one and let me know if it makes sense to a native speaker
http://htmlpreview.github.io/?https://g ... nager.html
2) is implemented as well, in the sense that now when you click on a Sequence the step you clicked is highlighted and selected in the chaser editor
I've also updated the documentation. Please check this one and let me know if it makes sense to a native speaker
http://htmlpreview.github.io/?https://g ... nager.html
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Michael Clements
Hi Massimo,
It makes very good sense - 98% excellent English! I'll sent the minor corrections to your personal email.
It makes very good sense - 98% excellent English! I'll sent the minor corrections to your personal email.
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Michael Clements
Hi Massimo,
Some further observations on your first reply in this thread:
a) and b) The point with a) is that the deleted sequence can't be recovered and used again in the show – I understood the bit about the sequence being permanently deleted only by using Functions Editor; a good idea I might add. With b) implemented it's problem solved.
c) The problem with having all the scenes and sequences in one window is the sheer length of the list. I think it would be better to split the selection process
New Scene – Scenes lists plus created new scene
New Sequence – select from Sequences associated with the current Scene plus create new Sequence
The problem is compounded by the window not yet displaying Scene folders and not having the Scenes in alphabetical order (it looks like they're listed in the order they were created).
It's a bit off this point, but it would be a good idea if all the list windows in qlc+ were taller (or adjustable).
e) Doesn't work in 4.7.0. (on Linux). Newly created Sequences are listed with the Chasers, not under the parent Scene (I don't think this happened in earlier versions) and the Sequences do not appear in the Function selection window for attaching to a Button.
2) If I understand you correctly, clicking on a Sequence step graphic now highlights that step in the Chaser Editor and selects it ready for editing – if so, that's excellent.
The point with highlighting and selecting a newly added step automatically (in addition to the above) is not only that it saves a click but that it makes clear where in the sequence the step has been added. I assume this is equivalent to adding the graphic for the new step to the track and automatically triggering the process that is intitiated manually by clicking on the graphic.
Some further observations on your first reply in this thread:
a) and b) The point with a) is that the deleted sequence can't be recovered and used again in the show – I understood the bit about the sequence being permanently deleted only by using Functions Editor; a good idea I might add. With b) implemented it's problem solved.
c) The problem with having all the scenes and sequences in one window is the sheer length of the list. I think it would be better to split the selection process
New Scene – Scenes lists plus created new scene
New Sequence – select from Sequences associated with the current Scene plus create new Sequence
The problem is compounded by the window not yet displaying Scene folders and not having the Scenes in alphabetical order (it looks like they're listed in the order they were created).
It's a bit off this point, but it would be a good idea if all the list windows in qlc+ were taller (or adjustable).
e) Doesn't work in 4.7.0. (on Linux). Newly created Sequences are listed with the Chasers, not under the parent Scene (I don't think this happened in earlier versions) and the Sequences do not appear in the Function selection window for attaching to a Button.
2) If I understand you correctly, clicking on a Sequence step graphic now highlights that step in the Chaser Editor and selects it ready for editing – if so, that's excellent.
The point with highlighting and selecting a newly added step automatically (in addition to the above) is not only that it saves a click but that it makes clear where in the sequence the step has been added. I assume this is equivalent to adding the graphic for the new step to the track and automatically triggering the process that is intitiated manually by clicking on the graphic.